On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 6:01:06 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:24:46 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:54:04 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 4:17:07 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 5:31:24 AM UTC, news18 wrote:

So, effectively, the USA surrendered [in Vietnam].

Oh, it's worse than that. In The Devil's Pleasure Palace, Michael Walsh made the case that the US wanted to lose that war. Other historians and philosophers have made the point that stopping the 20th century's wars, and into this century, too soon just guaranteed that one unfinished war would be the flash-point for the next one. Iraq and Afghanistan are the recent examples commonly cited. Paul Johnson wrote of the deplorable effects of Americans' small-town morality when real politik was required. Walsh fixes the blame for this defeatist inability to conduct wars to their necessary conclusion on the Frankfurt School and its Critical Theory. I've been calling them commiepinkofellowtravellers since the 1960's and their theory the stinking detritus of resentful Germans who didn't know how to behave as guests in someone else's house. The little Antifa fascists are their children, and the modern Democratic Party is driven by Critical Theory's foolish fallacies. Their whole thing is cultural Marxism and, like other sorts of Marxism, it is a suicide cult in which limp-dick defeatism pigeonholes nicely into the their huge cupboard full of omnidirectional hate for Western civilisation. You're a representative example of what Critical Theory has done to two generations now.

Well that explains everything! Meanwhile, North Vietnam did not surrender.

-- Jay Beattie.

I got a haircut on Friday afternoon and my barber used to be a South Vietnamese government official. I told him what you said and he used a word that means "Eat ****". He said that the agreement was that the North would cease their invasion of the South and that the US would provide air support and military supplies to the South Vietnamese to maintain the status quo.
Not only did the North not even slow up the continuous invasion but that the US did absolutely nothing.

I would suggest you come down here and discuss it with him but he wields a mean straight razor.

Why? I can read the Paris Peace Accord. It's cut and dried. North Vietnam did not surrender. South Vietnam did not occupy or police North Vietnam. North Vietnam did not pay reparations. There was no treaty. North Vietnam violated a cease fire.

Article 2

A cease fire shall be observed throughout South Viet-Nam as of 2400 hours GMT on January 27th 1973. At the same hour, the United States will stop all its military activities against the territory of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam by ground, air and naval forces, wherever they may be based, and end the mining of the territorial waters, ports, harbours, and waterways of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. The United States will remove, permanently deactivate or destroy all the mines in the territorial waters, ports, harbours, and waterways of North Vietnam as soon as this Agreement goes into effect. The complete cessation of hostilities mentioned in this Article shall be durable and without limit of time…

Article 4

The United States will not continue its military involvement or intervene in the internal affairs of South Vietnam.

Article 5

Within sixty days of the signing of this Agreement, there will be a total withdrawal from South Vietnam of troops, military advisers, and military personnel including technical military personnel and military personnel associated with the pacification program, armaments, munitions, and war material of the United States and those of the other foreign countries mentioned in Article 3(a). Advisers from the above-mentioned countries to all paramilitary organisations and the police force will also be withdrawn within the same period of time.

Article 6

The dismantlement of all military bases in South Vietnam of the United States and of the other foreign countries mentioned in Article 3(a) shall be completed within sixty days of the signing of this Agreement…

Article 8

(a) The return of captured military personnel and foreign civilians of the parties shall be carried out simultaneously with and completed not later than the same day as the troop withdrawal mentioned in Article 5. The parties shall exchange complete lists of the above-mentioned captured military personnel and foreign civilians on the day of the signing of this Agreement.

(b) The Parties shall help each other to get information about those military personnel and foreign civilians of the parties missing in action, to determine the location and take care of the graves of the dead so as to facilitate the exhumation and repatriation of the remains…

Article 11

Immediately after the ceasefire, the two South Vietnamese parties will achieve national reconciliation and concord, end hatred and enmity, prohibit all acts of reprisal and discrimination against individuals or organisations that have collaborated with one side or the other… ensure the democratic liberties of the people: personal freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of meeting, freedom of organisation, freedom of political activities, freedom of belief, freedom of movement, freedom of residence, freedom of work, right to property ownership, and right to free enterprise…

Article 15

The reunification of Vietnam shall be carried out step by step through peaceful means on the basis of discussions and agreements between North and South Vietnam, without coercion or annexation by either party, and without foreign interference. The time for reunification will be agreed upon by North and South Vietnam…

Article 21

The United States anticipates that this Agreement will usher in an era of reconciliation with the Democratic Republic of Vietnam as with all the peoples of Indochina. In pursuance of its traditional policy, the United States will contribute to healing the wounds of war and to postwar reconstruction of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and throughout Indochina.

Article 22

The ending of the war, the restoration of peace in Viet-Nam, and the strict implementation of this Agreement will create conditions for establishing a new, equal and mutually beneficial relationship between the United States and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam on the basis of respect of each other’s independence and sovereignty, and non-interference in each other’s internal affairs.”


Blah, blah, blah . . . cease fire; we get our prisoners and . . . we're out of here!

-- Jay Beattie.

Yeah, we have you second most dangerous city in the country. That's saying a lot when you have Chicago and Detroit.