On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:51:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/10/2021 9:55 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 3:41 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
AMuzi writes:

On 6/9/2021 1:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2021 1:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:

[ ... ]

Meanwhile the border is open.

https://wflanews.iheart.com/featured...-county-woman/


CBP agents report that most of the staff has been
reassigned to processing of illegals rather than actual
border enforcement. There are virtually no deportations
any longer. And those 'helpless children' are 90% single
males between 15 and 21.

These are not new problems and a complete solution is not
possible but these are real problems:

https://policetribune.com/advocate-f...rtation-order/


The border is not "open" any more than all bike shops are
always "open." Bike shop and other burglaries happen despite
reasonable security.

Actually, your position on this is sort of flipped from your
usual position. You've repeatedly argued against gun laws,
saying "How is the prohibition on drugs working out?".

For consistency, you should be saying we shouldn't have
border security.


Extend the argument and you get to 'we are not a nation'. That's too
far over the line for me.

No visas were required for aliens wishing to enter the US prior to 1918,
were we not then a nation?


That's insightful. So I thought about it.

A lot has changed.

In 1900, total US tax burden, local, county, state and federal was
under 10% of GDP. One might bemoan the ethos 'work or starve' but
that's how it was generally.

As Milton Friedman famously concluded 'You can have a welfare state or
open borders, but not both.' I think he makes a very good point.

Add in other social/cultural changes and open borders are IMHO a clear
and present danger. We have plenty of dangers here already.

The cost of social welfare is one part of the puzzle, another one is
just the increasing ability of states to micromanage people. When
Fernando and Ysabel kicked all the Muslims and Jews out of Spain no one
objected that they weren't allowed to do that -- they were sovereign.
But the modern beaurocratic centralized approach of passports for all
with a stamp for each coming and going was just not doable, so they had
to rely on the Spanish Inquisition.

It's true that detailed migration control has become a sine qua non for
a state above the failed level, like a highway system or a working
airport. It's useful to remember that those requirements are of a
similar age.

I'm not ready to advocate open borders, but I do object to the idea that
they are literally unthinkable. Most of the world had them not all that
long ago.



The dole is more than a cash outlay by the taxpayers. It
changes society. Where the benefits are large the effects
can become pernicious. A perusal of any large city's
overnight news will confirm that.


Years ago I read a study made in Detroit, when the car plants were
still open. The study was intended to lessen unemployment in Detroit,
which the article stated were into the 3rd generations.

To implement the study they got various auto plants to come up with
non-skilled jobs that were filled with long term unemployed.

The article stated that the study was terminated as these unemployed
would come to work for one or two days after being "hired" and then it
seemed that it was simply too much bother. They had never worked,
their parents had never worked and in some cases their grandparents,
and they saw no reason to work.



And culture matters. Legal immigrants desirous of
assimilating into this country (a country where one may
become truly thoroughly USAian unlike some countries despite
legal status) are IMHO fundamentally different from illegals
in their experiences, assimilation, productivity, civic
participation etc. Are there exceptions? Sure but I see that
difference generally.

USA more than any country in history has welcomed immigrants
and we have flourished. I am not opposed to immigration at
all. I am opposed to slavery, child trafficking, criminals
and foreign agents meandering across our borders at will.
Which by the way is as prevalent in airports as in the
Arizona desert, (just different groups with more or less
resources).
--
Cheers,

John B.