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Old February 20th 18, 09:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Default Ouch. This happened to me once

On 2018-02-20 09:04, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 7:54:03 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-19 16:06, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2018 5:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-19 13:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2018 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-19 11:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:


[...]


Anyhow, I would never pass a truck on the right unless
I have established an acknowledged visual contact with
the driver.

But the bike lane sends a different message, as
interpreted by the cyclist in Andrew's link and many
other cyclists. Again, this collision type was
responsible for many of the cluster of cyclist deaths in
London a couple years ago.


A bike lane is _not_ a free ticket to a careless riding
style. That cyclist was careless, plain and simple. There
was a clearly visible turn signal yet he ignored it.

You may say you know that. But it should be obvious even to
you that many, many cyclists do NOT know that.


Then they have no place on a bicycle in traffic.

But what is the solution? There is very little effort expended
to teaching cyclists how to operate competently in traffic.



Do you really believe everything should be done by a nanny state or
some "organization"? My parents tought me that stuff. They taught
us just about everything traffic, how to behave as a pedestrian,
later as a cyclist, and many years later dad took us to a technical
parcours in order to master a car in crtical situations. Like when
things get slippery. Drivers ed classes don't teach you that, dad
did. And that's how society is supposed to be.


And yet you're suggesting massive nanny-state spending on facilities.
I don't get it. Is your daddy going to build facilities for you?


No. I pay taxes and I want my tax Dollars being spent fairly. Simple.

Things my mom and dad could do they did. Such as traffic ed. Mom and dad
had no jurisdiction about roads and stuff.


I look at this slightly differently than Frank. I would do more in
driver training to instruct students on the obligation of motorists
operating around bicyclists. Many do not understand the bike lane
laws, passing laws, etc.



In Germany we learned that in driver's ed. The practical tests could be
pretty gruesome. If you only once failed to turn your head to the right
to check for a cyclist - out - flunked - try again after x more
training hours. Of course, you got to pay for that test regardless.

I learned this stuff from dad though.


... Instead, the major lobbying efforts are all about building
facilities that will make bicycling safe for anyone "8 to 80."
The implication is that nobody will have to know anything.
They'll just toddle along in segregated facilities and all will
be beautiful.


Wot nonsense. Almost any rider I ever rode with knows how to ride.


You mean balance and go forward? I ride with people every day who
don't have much in the way of skills or who are just as distracted as
drivers -- earbuds plugged in or even talking on the phone. I passed
a bicycle parking cop on a bike who was talking on a flip phone a
couple of days ago. Incroyable.


So did you report the guy? In California that is a traffic violation.


But it won't. The "protected cycle tracks" those people lobby for
lose all protection at every intersection; yet the cyclists are
told they are safe, safe, safe - so of course, no need to look
for the motorists who turn across the cyclist's path because the
cyclists are hidden from view. No need to be aware that half the
cyclists are riding opposite the normal direction of traffic,
entering the intersection from a "Surprise!!" direction or
location.


I've got news for you: Cyclists have indeed grasped the concept
that you ride on the right on bidirectional cycle paths. Except in
AUS, UK and some other countries where they ride on the left. Heck,
even pedestrians adhere to the "walk left" rule quite well out here
so trips on MUP are very enjoyable. Those on busy country roads are
not.


Seriously, how many other cyclists do you encounter daily on your
commute from the front room to the kitchen?



I ride about 4000mi/year, more than half of it non-singletrack.


... Riding in a busy,
multi-use facility with two-way cycle tracks, trains, buses,
streetcars and pedestrians at rush-hour is not fun. This is where
you say, but that is why I live in bucolic Cameron Park! We should
build dirt trails through the cities! Right. We'll stipulate that
everyone should live in the country and ride on dirt trails -- but
they don't.


If it hasn't occurred to you yet most of my rides are into the
Sacramento valley which has by now become one giant metropolis. Where
you can't discern the boundaries between Folsom, Rancho Cordova and
Sacramento anymore unless you watch for the little signs. Lots of
two-way cycle tracks, trains, buses, streetcars and pedestrians. On my
way back I sometimes hit rush hour. Can't always avoid it because of too
many clients east of here so in the mornings I have to work.


Segregated bike facilities have their own problems and without
exception, they are not the fastest way for me to get from point A to
point B.



Well, many of ours do.


... And more importantly, it would take billions of dollars and
the biggest nanny-state eminent domain movement in history to claim
the land necessary to put in physically separated bicycle facilities
providing a real grid-work for cyclists. You can always throw-in a
trail along a creek or a highway or a RR right of way. That will be
nice, but except for a fortunate few, it will provide only a
percentage of the commute.



The one along the American River is heavily used by commuters. To the
point that I always try to leave it behind me by 4pm.


... I can take the dopey south waterfront
cycle track to work -- and I sometimes do that -- but I have to ride
over to it.



I do that a lot, using a singletrack to get to Folsom or Rancho Cordova.
Yes, it's almost 10mi more and the average speed there drops to 8mph but
absolute fun. Must carry carrots or a pear for Cotton, my horse friend.
That "costs" another 10mins but worth every minute.

Life is not supposed to be all nose-to-the-grindstone. If you are in a
hurry a lot get a Porsche or a Kawasaki.


... It's a novelty. I was going to take it this morning, but
it was snowing, and getting down to it is a sled run, literally. I
just stuck to the road and went toe-to-toe with the cars. I got some
awesome first tracks though. It's a pow day!


Yeah, first tracks is always fun. Less so when there are already
numerous tracks and they have iced up overnight.

--
Regards, Joerg

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