On Apr 25, 5:35*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 24, 9:35*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:42*am, RonSonic wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:23:52 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:05*am, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory
except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly
that's an ignorant jobstian bull**** excuse. *if the mechanicals are
good and the microstructure good, that's all that matters to your
ability to ride the damned thing.
How it it "ignorant" to demand aesthetic satisfaction from the
artifacts one owns. Stop blustering, Jimbo; it makes you sound like a
troll. A Ford gets you there. A Bentley gets you there with a smile on
your face.
Andre Jute
*"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which
must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-
Pelayo Ricart Medina
yeah, and the brains of non-engineers need boiling in brine and vinegar
sometimes.
Especially the zero-aesthetic barbarians.
Andre Jute
The Real Thing -- slogan I coined for wool, later used for a fizzy
drink
Original text, in case you want to know, dealt with value for money
and pedigree in steel bikes:
Criticising Waterford as lacking "pedigree" is probably not a real strong
argument.
Nobody accused Waterford of having zero pedigree, Ronni. The problem
is that Waterford just doesn't have the pedigree of say Bob Jackson or
Mercian, but Waterford charges three to five times as much as they do
-- not three to five per cent more, three to five whole multiples.
Holy Moses, i've heard of the last of the big spenders, but Waterford
is the last of the big chargers.
And it isn't just a difference in depth of pedigree that makes
Waterford look so greedy. At Bob Jackson (and possibly at Mercian too,
I can't remember now and there are plenty on RBT to *look it up) you
get a bike without local frame-stresses because it is brazed in an
open hearth for even heating, so there are technical superiorities
too. And the historic connections, for instance Bob Jackson is the
only place where you can get authorized Hetchins wavy chainstays.
I have no connection with Bob Jackson or Mercian, who are both long-
established traditional British bike makers; I normally order my bikes
in the Benelux or Germany.
There are some good bargains to be had with the Mercians even with
shipping, and depending on the exchange rate. *As for hearth brazing
and the heat affected zone, modern air hardened steels do not behave
in the same way as 531 or SL/SP. *Mercian uses air hardened steels,
starting with Reynolds 631 in its lower priced frames, which
purportedly gains strength in the heat affected zone. *The Waterfords
are a whole other animal judging by the website, and some of the
additional cost can be justified by the proprietary tube sets, etc.
Some is obviously hype.
I'm not unwilling to pay something for pedigree, given that it is not
overpriced like Waterford's, and given that it is real, not just some
wiseguys in a building once used by a famous name, or who bought the
right to use the name.
But the surprising thing about the best pedigreed products is that
their makers usually charge very little or nothing for the name
itself, merely insisting on not cutting quality of components and
workmanship in order to appear competitive on price. So you get what
you pay for.
Waterford clearly charges a premium for the name. I think it far too
high. YMMV.
I just couldn't bring myself to spend that
kind of dough on a steel frame, particullarly since in my size
(63-64cm), steel frame just looks so leggy to me now that my aesthetic
has adjusted to OS aluminum.
Bingo. I too used to think that OS ali looked clumsy. Now I'm used to
it and it looks so right that I had to adjust to the much slenderer
steel tubes of my Utopia Kranich.
I also don't know if modern steels are
all that repairable, but I leave that up to the experts to declare.
If not, it sort of undercuts one of the major claimed benefits of
steel. -- Jay Beattie.
My bike comes with a ten year guarantee. If it breaks and they can't
fix it, they give me a new frame. I reckon if it lasts ten years
without breaking, it will last thirty.
I didn't buy a steel bike on the technicalities. I just wanted a steel
bike to see how it rides, and I always liked the looks of lugs. You
only live once and you can't take it with you. (Not that I will need
any money to bribe St Peter. He's conditioned to call Calvinists
first.)
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html