"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

The only nonsense being spouted is by you. Trails for bicycles
are a very recent phenomenon. Mr. Vandeman will have none of it. For him,
bicycles are for roads – period! I don't object to bicycle trails; I only
object to bicycles on hiking trails.

I don’t give a stuff what Mr Vandeman does, or doesn’t, want so that is irrelevant.

The key issue then is what on earth is a ‘hiking trail’ ? It seems to me that you want to redesignate all kinds of trails that were heretofore for transport or recreation as such.

Everyone in the world knows what a hiking trail is, except you apparently. I wonder if you know what a bike path is? Do you know what a road is?

You are unable to appreciate the speed differential. Maybe
some day you will when you are walking a trail and are run over by a
cyclist.

It’s not happened yet … and I’ve been hiking for decades. You are focussing on a tiny, problem minority who go too fast in the wrong place. The vast majority no more want to crash into you than you want them to do so.

Bicycles go much faster than anyone can walk, whether on a street or on a trail. Many hikers have been struck by cyclists while hiking on trails.

It is the mechanical advantage that is critical which results
in a speed differential. Whether the power is human or a gasoline engine
generated doesn’t matter. It is not the same as walking.

No, of course it’s not the same as walking. Just as cross-country skiing or canoeing are not the same either. However, they all have the same thing in common; the motive power is the unaided human body. As I said before, you want to lump this in with powered vehicles but you simply can’t … this is a fundamental dichotomy that exists in pretty much every regulatory regime in the world. Bicycles and motorcycles are not the same.

What matters is the speed of the walker, not anything else. Glad we finally agree on something! Now we just need to get bicycles off trails the same as we got motorcycles off trails – and for the same reason - speed differentials.

What follows is too stupid for comment!

You mean you can’t refute it.

There is no need to respond to my every sentence. Only idiots do that sort of thing.
[...]

The managers of our parks and natural areas are stupid. I have
stated from the beginning of this thread that they will have to be replaced
by more intelligent managers.

Your definition of ‘more intelligent’ is simply ones that will accede to your wishes. My view is that they are, in the main, taking reasonably judicious decisions to share resources whilst having a care for the overall dynamic between user groups and environmental impact.

You will be proven wrong in the end. I depend on human nature to **** things up ... as usual.

That is what in fact Mr. Vandeman is working for. I
have also stated from page one that hikers and cyclists cannot share single
track trails because it is an irreconcilable conflict, not only of base use,
but of purpose.

So you say. You’ve not justified it other than by repeated assertion and I’ve already shown numerous examples where sharing works just fine.

What works “just fine” for you does not work so fine for most others. Come to Aspen, Colorado sometime to get a clue!

An enlightened public will come to see this sooner than you
think, most especially when hikers and equestrians start suffering injuries
and deaths from the activities of mountain bikers. We both agree that it will
be a political process that decides the issue.

As I already said, we will see. As the ‘enlightened public’ includes 50m mountainbikers I suspect you are wrong.

Mountain biking, if it continues to be a popular activity,
will have to get their own trails entirely separate from the trails that
hikers enjoy. There can be no sharing!

So you say … repeatedly. Doesn’t make it true.

Mr. Vandeman and I will press on ever ready to refute those
who would desecrate natural areas with their mechanical contrivances.
The future will see bikes banned from trails the same as we now see
motorcycles banned from trails ... and for the same reasons.

Well, it’s good to have a hobby … even if it is a futile one.

Better to have a futile hobby than a reprehensible pastime of ruining trails for hikers by desecrating wilderness and natural areas with the loathsome presence of a bicycle.

You have aligned yourself with the worst elements of those who
enjoy the out of doors.

I have, as I said, aligned myself with no-one; I don’t represent anyone.

Nonsense! Everyone in the world now knows where you stand although, like all liberal cowards, you choose to remain anonymous, never using your real name. Only Mr. Vandeman and I have the courage of our convictions.

You have never handled the motorcycle and other
motorized uses of trails adequately,

Actually, no, I provided factual backup regarding power, weight and environmental damage clearly differentiating motorised vehicles. That you don’t like it doesn’t make it incorrect.

What I don’t like is that you did not focus on what matters - the speed differential ... and the engine which makes noise. In other words, it is a contraption just like a bicycle is a contraption. Motorcycles in essence are motorized bicycles plus a bit of noise. Sorry you do not have the brains to see what is so obvious to the rest of the world.

That is because you are a hypocrite, hardly
worthy of being in the same universe as Mr. Vandeman and myself.

You’re aligning yourself with a convicted criminal. And precisely how am I being a hypocrite ? Am I advocating one course of action and then conducting another ? Don’t think so. Are you stooping to ad-hominem now because you can’t support your premises logically ?

Unlit you can justify motorized vehicles using the trails the same as bicycles, you are and remain a hypocrite. Mr. Vandeman is a Saint almost on my level. The only person here wearing a black hat is you – Blackblade!

Try to get a
sense of shame about it if nothing else.

It’s a big shame that you can’t learn to share and understand that your view is not the only one nor axiomatically correct. Until you do, you will continue to be amazed that others don’t agree with you.

Like all liberal know nothings you would like to think it is just a matter of different views, never once stooping to considerations of right and wrong, good and evil, the sacred and the profane. It is why I am a Great Saint and you are a mere sinner. My view will prevail in the end. All that needs to happen is for a few cyclists to kill a few hikers while “doing their thing” on a trail.

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great