On Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:15:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/29/2018 12:24 PM, sms wrote:
On 4/28/2018 10:21 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 7:19:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 4/28/2018 1:30 AM, wrote:

Stop, stop it is getting into a religion discussion already.

Can't stop. Can't stop. Worried that someone on the Internet will
believe Frank, as unlikely as that might seem to most people here.

Hmm, who do you want to believe long-time bicycle shop owners & expert
bicycle mechanics, chain experts, and Jobst, or Frank? Tough
decision--not.

What the Experts say About Chain Waxing:

"When wax was popular, we'd get customers coming in all the time
complaining about shifting problems on their bikes. Removed the wax and
lubed with conventional stuff and voila, shifting back to normal." Mike
Jacoubowsky, co-owner of Chain Reaction Bicycles.

"Wax is not mobile and cannot return to a location from which it has
been removed by rotation of one part on another." Jobst Brandt, author
of The Bicycle Wheel

"If you use dry lube or wax, follow product directions and use it often.
In some cases, dry lube should be used for every ride. It wears off very
quickly and no new lube can flow to the critical wear areas." Craig
Metalcraft, manufacturer of Super Link III.

"Downsides of the wax approach include the fact that it is a great deal
of trouble, and that wax is probably not as good a lubricant as oil or
grease." Sheldon Brown

For a good chain lube, that penetrates into the chain use PJ1.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AAGEF96
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UKH86Y
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GV978Y

"Features a foaming action that penetrates into the pins and rollers
Specially optimized for a standard non-O-ring chains"

For the record: Jobst didn't keep up with latest developments the last
10 years he was around, I disagreed with some of Sheldons statements
and Mike had als o some personal preferences and opinions.

Mike and Sheldon both worked at bicycle shops (Mike owns a shop) and if
they take the time to explain the issues with hot waxing I think they
are worth listening to. Jobst had a lot of opinions of course, but most
were based on facts and logic, something that trumps the emotional
feeling of hot waxing.

Of course the trend now appears to be to mix hot wax with some sort of
oil. Once the wax hardens and is displaced then at least the oil is
still providing lubrication, but the wax is not, and there's less oil
than if you just used oil alone.

sigh We really are in the post-truth era, aren't we?

Scharf [sms] gives us his product advertisements and his unproven
opinions. He praises those who agree with him as "all the experts."
There he is, staunch in his uninformed opinions.

Then there are the experiences of those of us who actually lubricate our
chains this way, and have done so for decades. We know it works - but
somehow that doesn't count.

And I've given links to test results - that is, real measured data that
verify what we users have been claiming. Scharf never gives measured
data to counter that. In fact, he never admits to reading it.

Try Velo Magazine, March 2013, pp. 62 - 64.
https://www.scribd.com/document/2620...ficiency-Tests

To quote the summary that follows the numerical results: " And for the
meticulous mechanic, happy to pull a chain off and re-wax it every few
weeks, cheap hardware store paraf?n is unbeatable." Unbeatable meant it
beat 54 other chain lubricants by delivering both highest efficiency and
longest chain life.

Here's some more, old enough that I had to scan the hardcopy, but still
valid:
https://flic.kr/p/dkUGq6
https://flic.kr/p/dkULS1

Again, comparing 11 different chain lubricants, paraffin delivered by
far the longest chain life. And that was extensive real world, on-road
testing.

Those tests were done using a hot bath for applying wax. I'm not that
diligent; I use a method which is probably not quite as good. But my
on-the-bike method is faster and more convenient, and still keeps the
bike and chain free of the black gunk that most other chain lubricants
generate.

I'm not saying anyone has to use wax. But I wish Scharf would quit
pretending there is no data that disproves his nonsense.


Is there some regulation in the U.S. that says a politician has to
tell the truth?
--
Cheers,

John B.