Frank Krygowski writes:

On 10/26/2017 6:26 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 11:36:48 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:07:39 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
writes:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:21:12 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

P.S. I just came across this on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQajOum6wA

Isn't the epipen nothing more than a convenience? Most people that are
going into antiphalactic shock are perfectly able to load a needle and
use it. This is not an instantaneous reaction. And if you are so
severely allergic to something that you need to carry medication with
you all the time wouldn't you be sure that the people around you would
know what to do?

So it is sort of confusing to me that people that had to do these
things for decades suddenly can't do them because there is a more
convenient method available.

Convenience in an emergency translates to survival rate. Most people
subject to anaphylactic shock are not trained nor used to injecting
themselves, much less locating the drug, figuring and measuring a dose,
and then injecting, all while rapidly deteriorating physically and
mentally.

The epipen provides a pre-measured dose, a convenient and easily
recognized method of storage, and a simple mode of operation -- you just
stab it in, through clothing, no fine control needed. It's usable by a
person in a medical emergency, or by a family member without special
training. EMTs and emergency room physicians use them too, I watched
the process when my wife went into anaphylactic shock last summer.

The big problem seems to be that it's too difficult to get competing
products approved, and too easy to milk government protected
intellectual rent. The epipen or equivalent is hardly rocket surgery.
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Radey - if you do not understand that you have allergies of a nature
that would set off anaphylactic shock why would you be carrying an
epipen? And if you do surely you understand that these people would be
trained in instantly recognizing the symptoms and would always carry
medication and hypos.

Training that is used seldom or never is difficult. Anyone regularly
going into anaphylactic shock is probably not long for the world. Most
of those carrying epipens rarely have to use them, almost all are
probably replaced unused, when they pass their expiration date.

Should we all stock fire extinguishers that have to be loaded just before
they're used?

Or do you carry an epipen around with you on the off chance that
someone is going to require emergency medical treatment after eating
some of John's Thai food?

I don't, but medical or quasi-medical offices, eg dental offices, do
keep epipens on the off chance that a patient will require them. A nice
market to abuse. Would you rather a dental hygienist had to try to
look up or remember the right dosage of epinephrine, locate it, put it
in a syringe, and inject, or just stab a ready-made device into some
patient going into shock?

In my small experience with seeing people go into shock it was a
food allergy and took 20 minutes to get full blown and the victim
was already in the hospital and treated.

Our former next-door-neighbor always carried an epi-pen in the back
yard. Supposedly, he had almost died once from a bee sting. I got the
impression that for him, the reaction was quite quick.

That was my experience. Three years ago my wife and I decided to keep
bees. Bees are about as low maintenance as any livestock can be, are
good for the garden, fun to watch. There is an active community of
amateur beekeepers in our area, so it's easy to get advice, borrow
equipment, and so forth.

So we put together a hive, and ordered a package of bees. When it
arrived, I had never been stung by a honeybee, although I had often
played with them as a child. They were in a mood, and by the time they
were installed I had been stung several times, and bailed out of my
overalls before I got to our back door. Both of us were stung a few
times that year, it's something you have to expect. Our hive failed to
thrive (we probably lost at least one queen), and it died that winter.

So we read E. B. White's "Death of a Pig", and resolved to try again.
Our next colony seemed a bit more aggresive in defending themselves,
which we took for a good sign. Again, both of us were stung a few
times, with the normal results: pain, swelling, and itching. Not that
big a deal. At one point my wife managed to get herself stung near the
eye, which swelled more or less shut. Still pretty normal.

One day last August I rode home from work, and went upstairs to take a
shower. My wife said she had been stung, and felt a little odd. She
showed me her forearms, which had hives. In my small experience hives
were something that came and went away spontaneously, so I told her
"you're not going to die", and I took a quick shower. I'm sure it was
less than five minutes, because I was a little worried.

When I looked out the window, I saw flashing lights. She had begun to
feel a great deal worse, called 911, and gone to sit on a bench at the
front of the house. Fortunately the ambulance was there in two minutes
or so, and they found her in the tripod position, vomiting on the lawn.

They gave her two epipens, loaded her in the ambulance, and took her to
ER. I followed, and when I got there everything seemed under control,
the ER doctor patiently explained what she was doing, why my wife was
shivering (loads of epinephrine) and so forth. Then they tried to get
her to change position, she started coughing or retching, and her blood
pressure fell way too far.

Suddenly there were a lot of people in the room, all throwing stuff on
the floor (how do they avoid tripping on it?), doing this, that or the
other thing, and looking suddenly concerned. I did my best to stay out
of the way. They were just preparing to intubate when they got the
blood pressure more or less under control.

Eventually my wife was fine, although she stayed in the ER that night,
and in the hospital for two more nights, and felt a bit puny for months.

The first allergic reaction took no more than 10 minutes from sting to
full blown anaphylactic shock. They told us the next one would be
considerably quicker. They prescribed her to carry two epipens, and, if
stung, to immediately inject one and call 911. One epipen was expected
just to provide time enough to get to the hospital.

Fortunately, it's pretty hard to convince a honeybee to sting if you're
not messing with the hive, and my wife has gone for a series of allergy
treatment shots. Supposedly she's up to receiving the equivalent of two
bee stings with each shot, so a single sting should not be a life
threatening problem.

We gave the hive away to our beekeeping mentor. I helped him load it
into his car, and surprised myself by how sad I was to see it go.

We heard the colony died last winter as well.

The really odd part of the story is, he loved bees and had a beehive
in the far back corner. But he had a friend do the major tending
chores.

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