On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 4:03:46 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 03 Dec 2018 12:01:11 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/3/2018 10:26 AM, wrote:
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 6:12:54 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 1:23:55 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 3:09:21 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
giant snip

Apparently you are unfamiliar with this foreign concept - United States Postal Service. Exactly what you would have a dealer using after charging you as much as 10 times more than I paid. But I'm sure you're rolling in cash and that means nothing to you.

Goodness! We were talking about the alleged "fact" that you posted
that "Most carbon rims are made in China from prepreg from Japan" and
I pointed out that carbon rims are also made by U.S. companies and
that their warranty is for 5 years.

Now you are off on a on a trip through the intricacies of the USPS and
apparently complaining that U.S. made wheels are more costly then the
cheap Chinese wheels that you bought.

The last time I corrected your fantasies you changed the subject to
India and now it is (apparently) how impoverish you are.

Wake up Tom, buying stuff because it is cheap and having it fail is
not saving money.

With his history of CF disasters, TK should be buying the most reliable products on the market sold by domestic sellers with domestic insurers. Try recovering a personal injury settlement or judgment from a Chinese manufacturer who sells direct -- or its insurer in China. Justify the increased price as an insurance premium.

That is also what surprized me. How can a person with that history and the following rants about CF buy cheap Chinese CF stuff. Unbelievable. You can buy Pinnarello frame for 350 euro, looking exactly the same as the originals a probably used in the same moulds, but the measurements showed completely different values. With CF is all about lay ups, used preps and quality control. The fact that something is produced in the same country (China) doesn't mean anything. I stay far far far away from CF with an unknown pedigree as you call it. Tom should do the same IMO. CF rims for clinchers are difficult hence their price, CF rims for tubeless even more difficult and than buying cheap Chinese stuff? WTF is he thinking...




Assuming that the wheels TK bought were unbranded versions of reputable wheels made in a Chinese factory, that means that the factory was knocking them off and stealing its customer's IP -- not something we want to promote. Assuming that the customer is actually policing its IP and its factory, then the knock-off is probably coming from a different factory and is of unknown quality. Now, there have been some very good knock-offs. Phil Knight busted a factory for knocking off Nikes and then hired them because the knock-offs were so good. However, there is no way of knowing in advance what knock-offs are really good and which aren't -- and unlike shoes, you can't see the "stitching" and materials and workmanship of a CF rim. For all you know, there are giant voids and a ****ty lay-up. OTOH, it might be O.K. stuff, but if I had landed on my head a bunch of time because of broken CF bits, O.K. would not be good enough.

+1

Lou

Lou - Where did you see this bike made out of Pinarello molds that had completely different measurements? How did you measure it? My guess is that as usual it is an urban myth.

That reminds me of that video I referenced that showed a high capacity wheel factory in China and someone here referencing a wheel building plant here which had technology 40% of the Chinese version. Almost all of the carbon fiber frames are built in China, Taiwan or India. Do you think that Trek is built here? Have you looked at the C64 Colnago? Knowing what I know not I wouldn't touch that Italian made POJ.

Chinese engineering is as good as anywhere else. Hell, most of their engineers go through American universities. The only problem is when they cut corners to sell cheaper. They are not cutting any corners on the clincher wheels since they are the same wheels used by several British and French "manufacturers" who improve their product by adding a decal. For instance - MAVICs are built in China.

I was totally against CF after several failures I observed personally but after extensive research and actually talking to engineers working with CF at Boeing I changed my opinion. It ain't the material, but the use of the material. Like any other material it has design limitations and if you remain within those limits you're fine.

The tubeless wheels aren't inherently bad designs, they simply do not have the quality control for that specific use. Do you suppose they just released those things without testing them? If they were breaking all the time their test lot would have shown it. But the difference between a test lot and a production lot can be worlds apart.



"Chinese engineering is as good as anywhere else. Hell, most
of their engineers go through American universities."

I do not believe either of those are true.

Chinese collages turns out something like 800,000 engineers a year.
See http://www.besteduchina.com/engineer..._in_china.html

Given that the U.S. hosts about 1.1 million foreign students, see
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...-united-states

It would mean that for U.S. educated Chinese engineering students make
up more then the 800,000 turned out in Chinese schools, nearly all of
the foreign students in U.S. collages must be Chinese engineering
students.

cheers,

John B.

Why must you continue to prove your stupidity? I'm growing rather tired of it.

Full time Chinese student make up 29% of foreign students but 71% of ALL graduate and post-grads are Chinese.