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Old April 17th 21, 12:00 AM posted to
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Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On 4/16/2021 1:44 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 3:47:56 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2021 5:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 1:31:19 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 10:08:52 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 9:36:49 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/15/2021 10:36 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.
And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?

John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?
Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?

John B.
If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology.
What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom
bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the
incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two
bearings with the tube sticking through them?

As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at
least a hundred and thirty years :-) nd_1890s

John B.
Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it.
Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I
had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head
bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either.

Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles.

There are a lot of cylinder sizes, including mini 'wearable'
setups (those are not shown in this link).
China Freight -- and not the low-cost option, either. About 20 years ago, they were selling something similar at Costco -- along with some cheap Lincoln stick welders.
Jay, please don't hand out that kind of crap when I actually built motorcycle dragsters and know what is required. To properly fit the tubes you need a milling machine though you could do a half ass job with a very well built drill press. You can't just stick the tubes into the lugs and silver solder them so you need a HEAVY jig to put everything and KEEP everything in alignment during the soldering or brazing. John is lying through his teeth because that is all he ever does, Crew chiefs are crew chiefs because they can't do anything themselves.
How many times do we have to go through this? Do you even remember the last time we had this discussion? To refresh your memory, Proteus -- even Bike Warehouse -- sold frame building kits for home builders. Were you asleep during the 70s-80s? Muzi regaled us with stories of hand-building with no lathe. Here, read the Proteus book: Go to page 17 "Mitering the Tubes." No HEAVY jigs, no lathes.

I worked with a frame builder who didn't use a lathe, although he had templates that were made on a lathe (and got a lathe some years later). I cut and mitered the tubes on my last steel racing frame with a hacksaw, file and a template that was close, but the tube still had to be hand-filed to get the angle just right. It was brazed together on a brazing stand with no HEAVY jigs and checked routinely on a surface plate. It was dead-on accurate.

Tons of people home-built their bikes in the 70s and early 80s. John was a welder and I see no reason why he couldn't braze a steel frame. It's not rocket science. In fact, brazing is a snooze job for a good welder.

-- Jay Beattie.
If you worked with a "frame builder" that didn't use a mill or a heavy jig what were you doing? Defending him in lawsuits for endangering every person that bought a frame from him? Quit trying to bull**** your way out of this. What gave you the idea that John could braze or that he was a welder? That's the same kind of crap that John has been handing out since he got here. He claims to have been a crew chief understand? All he did was take the flight maintenance writeups from the crew and call the people that COULD do things. If he worked at a job outside of his retirement from the service it was probably paperwork because they needed someone that could speak English. I'm not trying to knock John other than he is bull****ting everything he comments on. I was in the Air Force remember? I know what crew chiefs were.

I hand miter tubes because it's much faster than the setup
time on a lathe. Much faster.

My frame plate is a massive chunk of steel but I built
frames before I made that and several famous builders ran
their whole careers with simple straightedge, level and
machinist's protractor:

If your facility is doing large numbers of frames in
batches, better tooling pays in time saved:

For one-offs such as custom builds or repairs it's not clear
to me at all.

As a one time semi-practicing machinist, I would be be very interested in how you could miter a tube with a lath. I can think of a couple of ways but it would all require so much tooling that it would be cheaper to buy a mill.

That's true but many people own lathes. A nice Bridgeport
vertical mill (as Bruce Gordon used) is another level of
expense mass and shop space.

Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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