On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 7:14:14 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
On 29/08/2017 10:05 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 6:02:18 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/28/2017 9:15 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/28/2017 9:29 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 5:22:25 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
We might as well pick up this argument here again
because the cost of carbon fiber has been falling like a
log. You can now buy carbon fiber bikes for the same or
less than aluminum or steel of the same quality and with
the same component sets on them.

I have been convinced in email conversations with
engineers are large manufacturers that you can build a
carbon fiber frame and fork with the ability to last a
lifetime.

But that is not what they are designing. They are using
a light material to manufacture the lightest possible
bikes. They are competing with each other to make a
lighter bike. The engineers are stuck trying to put as
much reliability into these frames as possible for their
weights.

Snipped

Your first paragraph contradicts your third paragraph. LOL

Cheers

I think that the first paragraph referred to costs of raw
carbon fiber
which is probably correct as facilities to make CF has
tripled in the
past 10 years. Although it is also true that demand has
risen during
the same period.

The last time I was down to my LBS - about two weeks ago -
they had
one steel frame bike in stock, a TREK touring bike, bar
end shifters
and all. The bulk of the bikes "on the floor" were
aluminum and a few
"top of the line" CF bikes were on display.

One made me think of our indomitable MTB rider. All
carbon, suspension
fore and aft, and large, the sales person mentioned "3.8",
I assume
inches, tires. Price? A modest US$6,000 (note the
devaluation of the
U.S. dollar here).

The shop also (usually) has a triathlon sitting in the
window. In the
vicinity of US$10,000.

So, I'd guess that essentially, the top of the line bikes
are CF, the
average guy is riding aluminum and the low enders (who
think of
themselves as true believers) ride steel.

I think the steel contingent also includes almost anyone
who, for whatever reason, wants a custom frame. There's a
fair amount of interesting custom stuff happening, and it
seems to be almost all in steel.

Also, there are those people who are justifiably happy with
the good quality steel frames they bought decades ago. Not
everyone belongs to the component-of-the-month club.


Craig Calfee seems to do OK with custom carbon. We've been
happy with every one. And he delivers on time too, a habit
many custom steel builders find inconvenient to their lifestyle.


I think the waiting list for a Vanilla is five or six years, assuming Sacha is still taking orders. http://www.thevanillaworkshop.com/vanilla-about

They are gorgeous bikes, but I don't look at my bike much, so I'll stick with OTC until I retire and have time to wax and shine. If I just wanted the steel-is-real thing, I might go with something a bit more pedestrian. https://breadwinnercycles.com/product/b-road/#frame Expensive, but not laughable. Waah, it comes with a CF fork. Lots of custom steel comes with a CF fork. You have to go mid-fi (Soma, Surly) or super high-end to get a brazed steel fork of yore.


They're saying 4000 US for that one.

http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/html/piuma-ti_en.html
This is one similar to what I was looking for but it was 3200 CA or so
with a modest group set. Also now has CR fork though I see.

You can get steel bikes from a dozen American custom builders such as Mikkelson and the like. You can also buy custom steel frames from the top makes in Europe. I think that you can even buy a Pinarello in steel.

Yes, many of them come stock with carbon fiber forks but you can order steel forks.