On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote:

[...]

... Given Vietnam's history
since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
under the present government as they were under previous regimes.


Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
wrong with communism.

As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class.


Not the ones I met. They didn't have much more than the shirt on their
backs and most didn't own real estate over there or had much in terms of
other wealth. A simple bicycle was already considered a luxury.


... Certainly
Thai pirates were active in robbing them and in cases where the
Vietnamese were subsequently rescued they all complained of being
robbed of money, and from personal knowledge an escape boat that
approached a drilling platform in Malaysian waters offered to pay for
food and water and a later boat that landed on Karimun Island in the
Java Sea offered to pay for food and water using gold.

But the so called middle class is a minority in Vietnam, The Boston
Consulting Group estimates that the "middle class" may include as much
as 1/3rd of the Vietnamese people by 2020.

It was the remainder, the "peasants" that I was referring to when I
said "the average". Perhaps I should change that to "the majority".


I was referring to the same group. Simple workers. They fled because of
brutal oppression. Here in the US they realized how much of a
perspective they can have, learning new stuff such as electronics that
would have remained a complete illusion in Vietnam.


As for the blissful life under the U.S. supported "democratically
elected government, well religious freedom didn't really exist, to the
extent that Buddhist monks burned themselves in protest. Of course
that was right and proper for the Christians (some 6 million
Catholics) to persecute the heathen Buddhists ( some 12 million).


A lot of bad things happened half a century or more ago, sometimes in
the name of "Western values" or 100+ years ago even Christian missionary
"work" (and I am saying that as a practicing Lutheran). However, things
got better, much better. In communism they didn't.


By the way, the number of "boat people" who escaped Vietnam and
arrived in a foreign country amounted to about 800,000, call it a
million and an additional 1,000,000 escaped by other means for a total
of 2,000,000 during the 20 year period from 1975 - 95. Or roughly
100,000 annually.

From a nation with an average population of about 61.5 million during
the same period.


That qualifies as mass exodus, especially considering the untold
millions who did not succeed or didn't dare. Plus those snatched and
sent to "re-eduction camps" a.k.a gulag.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/