On 2017-09-09 21:28, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 07:50:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-08 20:39, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 11:48:38 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-07 18:10, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:19:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-09-06 16:50, John B. wrote:

[...]

... Given Vietnam's history
since, say the 1850's, the average Vietnamese is probably as happy
under the present government as they were under previous regimes.


Having met a lot of Vietnamese people, including people where not all
relatives made it out, I do not think this is true. I also had relatives
who had to live in a former communist country. They would have been shot
if they had tried to leave. Nobody will ever tell me there is nothing
wrong with communism.

As a general statement, those who escaped from Vietnam were people
with a certain amount of money. Call them the middle class.


Not the ones I met. They didn't have much more than the shirt on their
backs and most didn't own real estate over there or had much in terms of
other wealth. A simple bicycle was already considered a luxury.


And tell us, how did these penniless people buy the boat, provision
the boat, acquire sufficient fuel, pay the bribes to the coast guard
and navy necessary to start the voyage?


The same way they do it in Mexiko, North Africa or the Middle East.
Scraping money and tradeable goods such as bicyles, rickety motorcycles
and whatever together. Which unfortunately also meant that not everyone
in a larger family could get a boat ticket, it was only enough for some.
Talk to people that went through this. Sometimes tears will well up in
their eyes. For example, because they had to leave mom, dad and a lot of
others behind.

Or at least read up on it.

http://www.complex.com/life/2015/12/...es-vietnam-war

Quote "He ate rice with salted potatoes most nights". Is this the fare
of a rich guy?

Then, quote "In order to pay for his spot on the boat, my dad sold his
bicycle and organized a small group of people to escape on the same
trip. He said asking his mother for money was out of the question
because "if she knew, she wouldn't let me go.""

Later, quote "But by the fourth week, they were running out of bartering
goods, so my dad and other refugees stopped along China's uninhabited
shores to search for food in the jungle. They found guava trees and
loaded up on the fruit—which ended up making everyone constipated. "Back
on the boat, everyone was helping each other poop," he said".


Ah yes, you are describing the events told by a person who, describes
herself as "a writer, speaker, creative producer, and entrepreneur"
and wasn't born when the events took place which were told to her long
after they occurred.


Are you implying they lied?


Her father was described as, "My dad, who lived in North Vietnam's
capital of Hanoi, remembers the government rationing food stamps for
every citizen. He ate rice with salted potatoes most nights. After the
war, there was no freedom of speech, no freedom to travel, no freedom
to protest."

Interesting, but I wonder, really, as N.Vietnam had been governed by
the Communist government of Ho Chi Minh since 1945. But your site says
that "After the war, there was no freedom of speech, no freedom to
travel, no freedom to protest."

Do you suppose that 35 years after Ho Chi Minh had beaten the French,
and more recently chased the Americans out of his country, and sorted
out the Southerners that suddenly without notice things in Hanoi got
worse? Truly?


They did. The new government started a "cleansing action". Talk to
people from there. But ones that got out, the others may be afraid to
speak freely because that can have nasty results under communist regimes.


And a diet of rice and potatoes? As the writer was raised, as far as I
can tell, in the U.S. "potato" is probably intended to mean "white
potato" which as far as I know is not raised in Vietnam in commercial
quantities... but certainly makes for a good story.

And, again the implication is only rice and potatoes... when I was in
Vietnam people ate quite a variety of things, many of which while
possibly cultivated, also grew wild.

I agree that your story is a real tear jerker" but I suspect that like
many stories that parents tell children is that there is a limited
amount of truth and a whole lot of "how we did it in spite of all the
problems".


I believe the people I talked to and their stories were similar to this one.


"During that time, Vietnamese refugees sailed to neighboring countries
where they could stay in refugee camps, while waiting for sponsorship
to resettle in countries like the United States."

Ah, the penny drops. If we can get to a refugee camp we'll be fed,
clothed and sheltered, and won't have to work, while we are waiting to
go to America where everything is wonderful.


Wouldn't you do the same if you lived in an oppressed country and in
poverty that is most likely to become worse? I sure would, I'd try
everything to get out if there is no hope in changing the status quo.
And yes, then I'd try to find out what the most promising destination
could be.


I might point out that in the mid 1800's the Chinese who came to the
U.S. already referred to it as "The land of fat pork" which is
probably a synonym for "Heaven" to a Chinese peasant who likely ate
meat once a year.... or less.

In short a story intended to elicited sympathy but very weak on truth,
or perhaps I should say, "replete with innuendos eliciting sympathy".


Nonsense. Talk to Vietnamese of your generation.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/