On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 19:20:56 +0100, TMS320 wrote:

On 08/08/18 16:28, JNugent wrote:
On 08/08/2018 15:24, TMS320 wrote:
On 07/08/18 15:27, JNugent wrote:

Since horns are rarely, if ever, used for their legallt-intended
purpose, my view - for a long time - has been that rather than being
a C&U requirement, they should be banned except for the ones used on
official emergency vehicles.

I once used horn to try and stop a van driver from reversing
into me. The HC seems to allow that.
Alerting him to your presence is the specific purpose of a horn; that
much has been said already.

It is a special case when stationary.

Why are you making so much fuss about the "correct use of a horn"? OCD is
a DISORDER. Get it fixed.

Using the horn for its proper purpose is a very rare occurrence.

It's hard to escape the conclusion that you're just supposed to stop
in order to avoid a collision.

The original HC in the 1930's said "sounding your horn does not give
you right of way or absolve you from the duty of taking every
precaution to avoid an accident". Unfortunately this seems to have
disappeared from the modern version. "warn[ing] other road users of
your presence" is not particularly helpful.
There's still the law about driving without due care and attention
and/or without due consideration for other road users.

The requirement that a horn should not be used when stationary
seems a bit strange because (offhand) I can't think of a circumstance
nowadays where the horn could be useful while moving. Perhaps the
requirement came from the days when motor vehicles were hard to
control and there were few of them so people were not used to their
presence. Now, people use roads with the full expectation that
something big and fast operated by a psychopath is round the next
corner. Also, bulb air horns were more acceptable than the nasty
electric objects fitted today.
The obvious use whilst moving would be when approaching ths "summit"
of a hump-backed bridge or a sharp bend.

Perhaps you mean something like this? It is is harder seen from a
driver's perspective than from a high mounted camera. No need. Adjust
speed according to what can be seen.

https://goo.gl/maps/9MSMX69BxzM2
https://goo.gl/maps/R48YMSxzjQk

Incidentally, the bridge has a 2t mgw limit so several drivers shown
here are breaking the rules - plus many others plus a council official
with a Range Rover that knows full well.

WTF are you on about? I can clearly see what's coming the other way, that
is not a blind bridge whatsoever. Unless it's because the camera is
higher up than most drivers.

A multi-storey car-park near here had a down-ramp with a give way line
at the bottom of it, with the posibility of traffic approaching from
the left. A sign on the wall said "Sound Horn". I never did.

Weird.

The only time I've ever seen that is in France, in a tunnel in the alps,
it said something like "soundez obliatoire" with a diagram of a horn.

There were houses near the location and the occupants were as entitled
to reasonable efforts to keep down noise as anyone else is.

Well done you.

Likewise, an Italian friend used to sound his car horn on a hump-backed
bridge near his village. But the bridge had a house adjacent to it. He
would never listen to my remonstrations; I gained the impression that he

On a bicycle, the voice can be useful because the approach behind
pedestrians or horse riders is otherwise silent. When there is
insufficient clearance to get past without having their awareness I
always slow to match their speed before announcing my presence.
That sort of sounds OK and in keeping with the HC instructions on
motor-vehicle horns.

Except motor vehicles already make so much noise that they don't require
embellishment. Making pedestrians aware of my presence when I approach
behind them isn't needed in the car as it is on the bike.

Some modern cars are very quiet when driving slowly. I've often crossed a
road thinking there's nothing coming when there is. I thought they were
electric cars, but some petrol vehicles seem to make virtually no noise
now when travelling at 20mph. Not that anyone should ever drive that
slowly.

I still believe that it would be better if car-horns were simply
banned. The nuisance caused by mis-use far outweighs the weight of the
odd anecdotal case for their use for safety-related purposes.

Indeed. At most, such "safety-related purposes" could only cover small
insurance claims and can't possibly have effect on personal safety.

If the horn was not so unpleasant, the administrators that defined the
90dbA standard understood physics and the pad on the steering wheel was
force sensing to allow the driver to add expression it might be more
acceptable.

What do you mean? Are you suggesting it should be louder if you press
harder?

On that subject, why are horns so hard to find? I've often tried to hoot
at someone and failed to find the precise part at which you must press the
wheel to make the noise. The other thing hard to find is the hazard
warning lights, there's no standard at all for the position of the
switch. I once rented a van where the switch was actually on the
ceiling! They'd also replaced the rearview mirror (which obviously
wouldn't work with a van with no back window) with a satnav. I was not
told it was a satnav - for my whole journey it functioned as a very large
clock.