"NYC XYZ" wrote in
oups.com:


Hank Wirtz wrote:


You're paying attention to a 4-oz difference in weight, then
contemplating putting on a 4-lb saddle? (FWIW, my sister-in-law has
that saddle, and I guess she likes it, but it weighs more than her
rear wheel).

Holy Hell's Angels, that weighs more than my ass! Thanks for the
info...hmm...wonder if there are any ergonomic seats that are very
light?

Low weight does not equal performance, except maybe psychologically.
If you want to shave grams, pee before you ride. That's about the
difference we're talking here. Performance is going to come from
having a good-fitting bike that you ride a whole bunch.

LOL -- of course!

But the fit being equal, how do the specs read to you? I don't know
why they bother with Shimano this and Bontrager that...do even the
"pros" know what it means?? Reads like mattress advertising....

I'm a fast rider...I can keep up with my messenger friend who races on
the weekends (though we've never actually raced per se, given our very
different bikes). I say this so that you know I'm not stuck on
components like they were magic or something. In this particular
case, my natural inclination is to get the flat-bar bike, but it seems
like the componentry on the drop-bar may be substantially better.

Better? Probably, but I wouldn't say substantially. Deore LX is probably
somewhere between Ultegra and 105, but it's not really something that
can be compared. One's a mountain group, the other's a road group.


Only problem is that these particular bikes sound like real sweet
deals and aren't available except online from the manufacturer.

A bike that looks nice on paper but sits in the hallway because it's not
as much fun to ride because the geometry's weird is not a sweet deal.

What's the big deal with the "fit," though? An 18" frame is an
18"...and the seat posts adjust, etc.

Sort of, but not really. I have a 21" Peugeot Orient Express and an 18"
GT Avalanche. Because of seat post length, slope of the top tube, and
rigid vs. suspension fork, set the bikes side-by side, and the cranks,
seat, and handlebars are all pretty much in the same places (but the GT
has a shorter wheelbase). Geometry is a big part of fit. Sliding your
saddle on its rails or installing a longer stem will give different ride
characteristics than a different sized top tube, even though the overall
reach is the same. Raise the saddle to compensate for a shorter seat
tube, and you're also moving it backwards. Slide the seat forward to
compensate, and you change the reach. Put on a different stem, and your
steering changes. It all ties in together. You can compare geometry, but
it's tough to say what's best for you until you ride it in real life.

There's a great anecdote on good bike fit in the R&E Cycle (in Seattle)
newsletter this month, which I'll quote:

From http://www.rodcycle.com/07_05_news.pdf

"A couple weeks ago, a man came in (we'll call him Jim) during a busy
spot in the day on a Thursday afternoon. I had just walked up from the
frame shop, and noticed that Smiley and Scott had their hands full, so I
stepped in to help him. He said he was looking for a new 'go-fast' bike.
I asked him what he was currently riding. He said "well, I've got a 25
year old Motobecane." I asked him if he'd been test riding other bikes,
and if he'd ridden anything that he'd liked. He said "as a matter of
fact, I've been test riding bikes for a year but I haven't ridden a bike
that I liked better than my Motobecane." He was about to give up
looking, but then a friend of his suggested that he look over our
website (thanks friend). He liked our focus on comfort as well as
performance, and thought our Rodriguez Arrow Race would be worth a try.
I fit him to an Arrow Race, and set him up for a test ride.

"As he left the shop for his test ride, a woman (we'll call her Jane)
happened in to air her tires. Coincidentally, she was also riding a
1970-80's vintage Motobecane. As I helped her air her tires, I told her
about the man that had just left for a test ride whose current bike is
just like hers. She said "this isn't my only bike, it's just the bike I
ride all the time. I have an expensive bike I bought 2 years ago, but I
don't like it." I asked her what kind of ike it was. She said that it
was a carbon fiber race bike that she thought would make her fast, but
instead only made her uncomfortable. I suggested that she schedule with
me for some fit work, but she said "I think I'll just keep riding the
Motobecane....it's comfortable." She went on her way.Well, 30 minutes or
so later, Jim returned from his test ride. The verdict...all smiles.
"Wrap it up!" He said, "this one's mine".

"After a year long search, Jim decided that the bike to send the
Motobecane out to pasture would be a stock Rodriguez Arrow Race.

"Our commitment to blending comfort and performance has grown
out of listening to you, and listening to our own common sense. When we
build a 16 pound race bike for a customer, we want that bike to be not
only light and fast, but the most comfortable bike they've ever
ridden....a bike they WANT to ride every day. If I were going to race in
the Daytona 500, I would want to drive a Nextel Cup car. Comfort and
convenience wouldn't matter as I would be hopped up on adrenaline. But
if I were going to buy a high performance sports car to drive down the
coast, I don't want to have to crawl in the window. I'm going to want a
radio, air conditioner, a heater, and doors that open. I might even want
somewhere to pack a small duffle bag, and a seat for my wife (I know
what you're thinking Chris, and she didn't make me put that in).
The point is, even though I would be driving a high performance sports
car, it wouldn't be the same car that Dale Earnhardt Jr. would drive in
the Daytona 500. The same is true in a bicycle. Jane was sold the "Lance
Armstrong, 16 pound, gonna go win the Tour De France" model. But she's
not Lance Armstrong, and she's not going to race in the Tour. She
commutes, and she rides long weekend fun rides with her friends. She
would be much more comfortable on a 16 pound bike designed for her style
of riding. It should be set up by someone who listens to what she's
going to do with the bike, and fits her to it accordingly."

I really wanted to know what
the components of the drop-bar are like compared to those of the
flat-bar.

As far as caliper brakes...why not? These aren't mountain bikes.
They're light enough and strong enough for 100% of the TDF field, and
those guys descend at 50 mph. The _only_ reason they don't use them
on dirt bikes is for tire clearance.

I thought the V-brakes stop better? I went from cantilever brakes on
a chromoly to the old Trek 7500 (the old one, not the current one --
why did they change the frame geometry? It seems like everyone's
hybrid line has got the angled top tube now) with aluminum and
V-brakes...cool stuff.

Any better stopping is likely due to larger pads. The V-brakes they use
on some FBR bikes usually have road-sized pads. I have Kool-Stop salmon
pads on my sidepulls and they stop as good as anything.


Sorry if you're getting dogpiled here, but you really should do some
test rides of both flat- and drop-bar bikes before you try to make
your decision based on Ti vs. Al or 18.2 vs. 18.6.

I'm sure I won't like drop-bars since I think the typical flat-bar
forces me to hunch over as it is! I always raise the headset (correct
term?) myself...upright means comfort!

I think "stem" is the word you're looking for, and that can be very
difficult with threadless stems, since the height is changed with
spacers, and the steerer's often already been cut too short to add more.

You can get a riser add-on, but I haven't tried one.


To answer your overall question, I'd go for the drop-bar bike, but
that's because I like drop bars, not because of its componentry or
frame material.

I suppose I could always raise the drop-bars too?

Yup. And they give you more hand positions so hou can get some variety.
Reduces numbness for me.


When hunched over, my back really becomes the rear suspension!

Then absolutely, raise the bars!



What's it mean that the Airborne Thunderbolt comes in 10-speed (is
that right, only ten speeds????) "double" or 10-speed "triple"????

10 speeds in the back, with a double or triple crank, so a 20 or 30
speed system. The triple has a granny ring for the steeps.

You're asking questions, which is a good thing. Hopefully the answers
you're getting are leading you to more questions which will help you
make your decision.

Good luck!

-Hank