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Old July 22nd 18, 03:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 7/21/2018 4:57 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/21/2018 8:00 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-20 18:58, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/20/2018 10:53 AM, sms wrote:


I was astounded to learn that "almost ALL trail users in almost all
areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail."

Seriously, some people need to learn that life exists outside their
own neighborhood, and that not all areas of the country are exactly
the same, so they don't make statements that generalize based on their
own limited experiences. Certainly people from Silicon Valley and the
Bay Area, that have never experienced the eastern U.S., experience
culture shock when they go back east, or to the deep south.


Here's a link to survey data from 20 trails in Pennsylvania and New
Jersey:
https://www.railstotrails.org/resour...in al_Rev.pdf



"Purpose of Trail Use: Health 56%Â*Â*Â* Recreation 38%Â*Â*Â* Training 3% Other
2%Â*Â* Commuting 1%"

That's not "my own neighborhood." That's the next state over, and the
one past that. 20 trails. Ten years of surveys.

Why no comment on the data, Stephen? Joerg?


Because it is either wrong or you picked a trail with hardly any
connections to destinations where people need to go. Want to have an
example where this worked most excellently? Voila:

https://www.sanjoseca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/61031

Quote "The Guadalupe River Trail is used more frequently for active
transportation, with 35.4% reporting commuting to/from work".


I don't see Frank's posts, but based on the past, his "data" is usually
either totally fabricated, or he finds obscure web references that are
not necessarily related to the question at hand.

The link he provided is a prime example. Trails for "Rails to Trails"
are often recreational trails, not the same as Multi-Use-Trails in urban
and suburban areas which have been designed to tie together residential
and commercial areas. I have ridden one such "rail to trail"
http://www.ridethehiawatha.com/. There are definitely parking lots.
It's not an area where anyone lives, it's purely recreational.


Yes, and its website even gives driving directions to the trail. The use
of that trail is in line with the use of most of the bike trails across
the country, no matter whether they are urban, suburban or rural.

As an elected official I recently attended a "Trails and Waterways
Summit" where we discussed overcoming obstacles to continuing to develop
the trails network along creeks and rivers. The only real hope of
relieving traffic congestion is to at least slightly increase the bike
mode. Even a small increase would have an effect on congestion
https://valleywaternews.org/2018/07/16/first-trails-summit-is-a-success/.
I don't know of ANY of the county's creek and river trails where they
installed parking lots for people to drive to the beginning of the trail
and then bike, but perhaps there are some.


As to what you know or don't know - ignorance isn't bliss in your case;
instead, ignorance is hubris. But I don't expect you to know everything.
In fact, I no longer expect you to know much at all.

The nearest "creek and river" trail to me is about seven miles away. It
has parking lots at both ends, plus toward the middle. The next closest
"creek or river" trail is about 20 miles away. It has a parking lot at
its northern end and street parking at its southern end, plus a parking
lot near its middle. Both of those are used 100% for recreation, at
least within reasonable limits for rounding.

Before moving here I lived near the center of a city that had a
riverside bike trail. Since that trail was dead center of the city, it
may have had a few percent using it for transportation. But the trail
had such tiny use that it probably didn't matter. On a typical day, I
doubt 20 people rode on it.

Now, about trails and traffic congestion: Can you document, with
official data, a case where traffic congestion or average daily traffic
on nearby roadways dropped as a result of a bike path being installed?
It wouldn't take much more than ADT counts before and after the bike
trail was put in.

What? No such data?

I thought not.


--
- Frank Krygowski
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