On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 3:19:15 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-29 14:34, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/29/2018 10:11 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-28 08:47, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2018 7:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-27 14:55, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I think there are different cultural or social expectations in
Europe,
most of which are influenced by history. Europe seems to generally
have
much more restrictive land use policies, and those policies seem to
promote "infill" development.
Example: In Britain, in Austria, etc. when we bicycle toured, I was
struck by the practicality of city limits. There seemed to be a
boundary
around most towns, with apartments, houses, shops etc. on one
side and
little but fields and forests on the other side. We saw almost no
rural
convenience stores or gas stations, for example. People have been
living
close for hundreds of years, and they're used to such a system.
Except that such difference are not truly there. Think back to when
your relatives came from Europe. Probably not very wealthy, they
likely settled in an east coast town very similar to a European one.
Joerg, I'm talking about present day geography, not that of over 100
years ago.
So why did you ask about the age then? Makes no sense. I said it
doesn't matter and now you seem to say the same.
scratching head
I'm sorry you're confused again. I'll try to explain more thoroughly.
European cities were typically founded in medieval times, often when
they were enclosed by walls and back when almost everyone walked to get
around. As a consequence, city blocks were and still are small. Most
streets were and still are narrow by U.S. standards. And to a much
higher degree than the U.S., that original high density remains.
I suggest you visit Berlin, Duesseldorf, Frankfurt, Hannover or Dortmund
in Germany. All cities I spent lots of time in and they are by no means
small or resemble any of their characteristics from their medieval
times. With some cities that is because they were thoroughly flattened
in WW-II, others just razed the old city core and only left historically
valuable structure standing. Or what they thought was valuable back then.
It looks like Frankfurt (the only city I checked) has land use and zoning laws.
https://www.stadtplanungsamt-frankfu...94.html?psid=d
Buildings fill the cities to a much higher degree than the U.S., leaving
little room for parking lots, again resulting in higher density.
Duesseldorf is quite similar to Sacramento, for example. However, no
zoning laws so there are people living right in the center whereas in
Sacramento they mostly don't. Some other cities like parts of Frankfurt
become ghost towns at night but not because of zoning, it's because
people want to rather live in the suburbs.
... And
it's still considered quite normal to have a residence within the city,
which makes destinations one might want to access every day a relatively
short distance away.
It could be the same here if we'd ditch the stupid zoning.
snip
Here as in Cameron Park? Or here as in the United States? Portland is filled with multi-family housing over businesses.
https://d2bj656w1sqg1s.cloudfront.ne...t-1024x523.jpg
It's SOP in many cities. My brother owned a building with apartments over business in Denver. From an owner's perspective, it's not a great risk since you lose a lot of cash flow if your business tenants move. Its hard to fill a restaurant or other specialty space.
Your gripe is not with zoning laws but with zoning in particular towns, assuming that the development pattern was zoning driven rather than market driven. It became hip to be in downtown PDX, so condos and apartments popped up -- too many as a matter of fact. My commute to work is through he
https://d2bj656w1sqg1s.cloudfront.ne...t-1024x523.jpg Condos over business with OHSU offices. It used to be a shipyard. I preferred that.
snip
None, zilch. That wouldn't even get me to a church meeting. However, my
experience from the Netherlands is way different and I have a hard time
believing the country has changed so much for the worse in 30 years. But
maybe it has. We rode 30mi just to have a particular Abbey Ale that was
only available at a certain pub in Belgium. That included climbs which I
never liked.
Climbs? The Vaalserberg is less elevation gain than my ride home through the West Hills. I guess you can find some elevation in Belgium.
-- Jay Beattie.