On 2018-06-28 08:47, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2018 7:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-27 14:55, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I think there are different cultural or social expectations in Europe,
most of which are influenced by history. Europe seems to generally
have
much more restrictive land use policies, and those policies seem to
promote "infill" development.

Example: In Britain, in Austria, etc. when we bicycle toured, I was
struck by the practicality of city limits. There seemed to be a
boundary
around most towns, with apartments, houses, shops etc. on one side and
little but fields and forests on the other side. We saw almost no
rural
convenience stores or gas stations, for example. People have been
living
close for hundreds of years, and they're used to such a system.


Except that such difference are not truly there. Think back to when
your relatives came from Europe. Probably not very wealthy, they
likely settled in an east coast town very similar to a European one.

Joerg, I'm talking about present day geography, not that of over 100
years ago.


So why did you ask about the age then? Makes no sense. I said it doesn't
matter and now you seem to say the same.

scratching head


You (even you) can look up the population density of the U.S. vs.
northern European countries. You can look up the population density of
metropolitan areas both here and there, or typical home sizes, etc.
There can be no question that the U.S. sprawls more in every way.


As is evident in the examples I brought from Ireland and you brought
from the US, sprawl is almost identical. Except in the US many people
have (had) larger lots. That definitely started to change about 20 years
ago where cookie cutter homes were plopped so densely that people could
almost see the tooth paste brand the neighbor is using, through the
window. For example, in many new developments in Folsom the space from
house to house is right at code minimum. See link further below.


There are some old U.S. cities where the city center itself is dense.
But in America, metro areas often are described as "donuts" with lots of
development in the surrounding suburbs, but very little happening in the
city that forms the center.


Same in Germany in large cities. Frankfurt (where most flights from the
US land) seems almost deserted at night. People live in the burbs and
it's too far from there to potential city nightlife. So they don't go.


... And the suburbs, where almost all new
development happens, are all car-oriented. It's not only that business
owners expect that everyone will arrive by car; it's also that their
preferences and local regulations usually demand huge parking lots.
Those big parking lots force tremendous reductions in density.


That is indeed a major difference between America and most of the world.
Sprawl isn't different though, it's just that in US people used to want
larger properties. That is changing and now it looks more and more like
Europe, sometimes the density is even higher like he

https://goo.gl/maps/sJn6YgExy1K2

The car orientation is often still there but that has to do with
laziness. "Well, for starters a bicycle doesn't have an A/C button and
it's hot out!"


I live just beyond the biggest strip mall shopping hell for our metro
area. Sure, I can walk from (say) home to the hardware store to a nearby
restaurant, then to the nearest grocery. I could then walk home. But in
a dense inner city, such a trip would be a walk of perhaps several
blocks. Here it's a trip of several miles.

You chose to live in an exurban community that's a freeway drive away
from the nearest real city. It seems strange that you claim that is
somehow equivalent to central Amsterdam.


You can have both. Most places in Europe show how it's done, by not
having strict zoning.

We need to learn from each other. Germany can learn from us (yes, from
the US) how to build good and safe bike path. We can learn from them how
to achieve more walkable neighborhoods.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/