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Old January 10th 18, 01:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Default Anyone wear a helmet or elbow pads 4 black ice conditions?

Tim McNamara writes:

On Sun, 07 Jan 2018 20:30:21 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 1/7/2018 1:28 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Just wondering if when it's known that there can be black ice on the
roads if anyone here wears a helmet or other protection (such as
elbow pads) that they'd not normally wear when the roads are clear.
Do you?

Well, "it's known that there can be black ice" sounds to me like
"It's near or below freezing."


Surely you need two things for black ice: freezing temperatures and
liquid water. Hoarfrost isn't black, neither is snow. To get
transparent ice on a reasonably crowned road you need quite a bit of
liquid water, so I expect black ice when snow melting temperatures are
quickly followed by temperatures well below freezing.


That's not black ice, that's regular ice.

Black ice is visually transparent, usually formed by condensed moisture
in vehicle exhaust freezing to the roadways. The road can be otherwise
dry without a visual clue. It's more prevalent on bridges because those
road surfaces are colder than roads on top of the ground. Usually this
is a phenomenon that happens below 0F or about -20C, at which
temperatures crystal salts or brines tend to have little benefit.

Here in Minnesota and over by Madison where Andrew is, we get those
conditions multiple times most winters. Since there is no visual cue to
its presence, the first hint is often that vehicle up ahead slewing out
of control... if you're lucky and it's not the vehicle next to you- or
your vehicle. Drivers around here just know to beware when the temps
are down to 0F- it's one of the ways to spot the newbies, too.


I won't hold myself out as an expert on ice, nor have I lived anywhere
that 0F temperatures are really commonplace. But I have watched this
bit by Key and Peele repeatedly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efiW2K8gASM

and find it as illuminating as anything else. Having heard a number of
black ice stories, my working definition of black ice is a thin,
transparent layer of ice on the roadway, that *took me by surprise*.


You are correct in that 0F is around the limit of efficacy of road salt,
so brine that has melted during the day, and adsorbed water, either from
ambient humidity or vehicle exhaust, tends to freeze. This may be
surprising to drivers. I don't believe it's true that bridges tend to
be colder than other roadways. I think bridge decks tend to change
temperature, either up or down, faster than other roadways, which may
freeze more brine before it gets a chance to run off.

I remember driving from Chicago back to Minnesota many years ago as a
young driver. I was on I-90 in the middle of Wisconsin on a bitterly
cold late afternoon; between Madison and the Dells. No snow cover yet,
just danged cold and not a sign of ice on the road. I drove onto a
short three lane bridge with a curve; started out in the inside lane and
a second later was exiting the bridge in the outside lane- white as a
sheet and with eyes like saucers, I'm sure. It was sheer luck I didn't
park it in the guard rail and that there weren't any other cars anywhere
near me.


I remember driving from Austin (TX, not MN) to Dallas in December. It
had rained, and the temperature fell rapidly to below freezing,
solidifying lots of dew. It was humid enough that the carburetor in my
car actually froze up (I could see ice in the throat after removing the
air cleaner). Fortunately exposure to small planes had made me aware of
carburetor icing, and I scavenged a piece of cardboard from the side
of the road to put in front of the radiator in order to continue.

When I got to Dallas there was ice everywhere -- on the fences, on the
bushes, and all over the road. Large vehicles were doing their
impression of the hippos in Fantasia. It was hard to walk on any paved
surfaces. Naturally, Dallas doesn't have *any* road salting or sanding
equipment, nor is salt or sand stockpiled, so the ice there is as black
at 25F as it is in Minnesota at -5F.

To get back to bicycling, it seems to me that cyclists actually have a
few advantages when it comes to detecting ice: a better view of the
roadway, slower speed, a sensitivity to that "oh ****" feeling caused by
even a very momentary loss of traction, and, if you're as timid as I
have become, a ready resignation to slowing down for poor conditions.

Of course, it is still possible to fall on the ice, as I have proven to
myself several times. That could hurt, especially in traffic.

Tonight, riding home from work, it was warm, right around freezing. I
detoured around a number of patches of roadway snow, but didn't see much
ice. I did see a number of patches of water, which may have frozen by
now.
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