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Old February 22nd 18, 04:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Ouch. This happened to me once

On 2018-02-21 10:57, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/21/2018 9:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-20 19:00, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2018 8:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2018 2:54 PM, Joerg wrote:

It's not that American bike facility planners never mess
up but after having lived long enough in Germany, the
Netherland and the US I can rightfully say that the German
bike facility planners are the worst of the three groups.
By far.

We've just been looking at examples of American facilities
that did not work and British facilities that did not work.
Jay has talked at length about the faults with many of
Portland's bike facilities. (Their bike boxes, installed to
reduce right hooks, instead increased right hooks greatly.)
We've talked at length about Stevenage and Milton Keynes in
England, towns purpose-built with state of the art separate
bike facilities that don't work. I recall reading about an
Ottowa, Canada cycle track that scored three car-bike
crashes in its first three weeks. A Columbus, Ohio cycle
track (on Summit Street) had 11 car-bike crashes in its
first year of operation. The same stretch of road had only 6
car-bike crashes in the four years prior to the beginning of
construction. The "bicycle highways" through London
generated a cluster of crossing conflict fatalities a few
years ago.

Joerg, don't pretend it's just incompetent designers in
America, or Germany, or Canada, or England. There are too
many examples. Basic physics and fundamental principles of
traffic movement argue against many of the designs you tout.
And green paint or copious warning signs can't prevent
crashes caused by illogical traffic interactions.


+1


Andrew, you are in the perfect position because you run a
bike shop and undoubtedly 95% of people coming through the
door are cyclists (discount the grandparents buying a
tricycle for li'l Joey). What if you'd ask every one of them
for a week or so whether they prefer riding on bike paths or
on roads?


As with the apologists for communism who turn hands up and
say, "Well,
you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs" I note
that there's
never an omelette.


Oh there is but it's always being eaten by the politically
connected. Regular people must stand in line to get one,
only one per family, and when it's their turn all omelettes
are already gone.




What if you'd ask every one of them for a week or so
whether they prefer riding on bike paths or
riding on bike paths or on roads?



I quote Pauli, "That's so bad it's not even wrong."

Joerg, you have no argument and you ought to know better.

I, for one, would rather NOT ride on kiddy paths, a significant reason
among many being I'm hardly ever going where one exists.

"Hey Ms Customer! How about ditzing around on the kiddie path over near
Mugger's Lane instead of going to work today?" pffft.

I admit to absolutely hating the stupid boondoggles; I go out of my way
to find another route on principle. I also avoid door-zone painted lanes
and other crap of their ilk.


Sorry, but now you are making the same assumptions and then get into the
same prejudices as others here. I do not mean badly designed kludges.
What I mean is this:

https://goo.gl/maps/vuvriaGd6dQ2

There is a bike lane plus bike path plus a nice bike bridge to cross.
That is qver the top but I'll gladly take it.

Or this where especially during rush hour you have the option of either
crossing a busy road farther away at a traffic light or over this bike
path bridge totally unfettered and without Diesel smoke blowing into
your face and lungs:

https://goo.gl/maps/any8WdopRf82

That city knows how it's done right. I went through there yesterday. It
is a joy and the stores there are rewarded by me and others preferring
them over ones in other towns sans bike system connection. This results
in more tax Dollars into city coffers, with which they can build more
infrastructure, which results in even more tax Dollars ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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