On 07/02/2016 07:55, Tom Crispin wrote:
On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 12:54:15 AM UTC, MrCheerful wrote:
On 06/02/2016 23:33, Tom Crispin wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 8:11:20 PM UTC, MrCheerful wrote:
On 06/02/2016 20:04, Tom Crispin wrote:
On Saturday, February 6, 2016 at 5:37:13 PM UTC, MrCheerful wrote:
On 06/02/2016 17:31, Tom Crispin wrote:
On Thursday, February 4, 2016 at 2:21:16 PM UTC, JNugent wrote:
On 03/02/2016 23:48, Tom Crispin wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-35472617

It is time that failing to provide driver details results in a lifetime driving ban.

This loophole must be closed.

Can you imagine the public outcry if the owner of a bicycle whose vehicle was used to deliberately harm an innocent bystander was allowed to get away with failing to provide the rider's details? I wonder why we have never heard of such a case..

Forget the offence for a moment - it could be anything from picking the
council's flowers to bank robbery - would you impose a draconian (not to
say vindictive) penalty on somebody against whom there is no evidence,
merely on the basis that there is no evidence against him and that you
"think" that he should have confessed to something you suspect him of
committing even though there is no evidence to support that belief to an
acceptable standard of proof?

Is that really what you mean?

No.

What I mean is that failing to give driver details should be treated the same way as perverting the course of justice.


And in a case where quite genuinely the owner does not know?
Should he/she be liable to a max. sentence of life imprisonment?

It would not be for me to predetermine the outcome of a trial for perverting the course of justice.


Do you think it would be an appropriate sentence for someone that has no
idea of who was driving their car at a particular moment?

Has it been established, in this case, that the registered keeper has no idea who was driving. Or is it simply a matter that the registered keeper is not saying who was driving?

Let us assume that the registered keeper is completely unaware and
unable to establish the actual driver at the time of the incident. Is
it still suitable to convict the reg. keeper of 'perverting the course
of justice' with a max. possible sentence of life imprisonment for their
failure to know the driver?

It is not for you to assume anything.

The point I am making is that the law should demand a registered keeper to assume some responsibility for knowing who is using their motor vehicle.

UK law has to be framed reasonably (not least in order to comply - as a
treaty obligation - with the European Convention on Human Rights).

A law which demanded that a person KNOW things that he plainly cannot
know would fall foul of that obligation.

HTH.

If their is a genuine reason why the registered keeper is unable to provide driver details, such as theft, that would be for a court to determine.

Why?

It might also be the case that in some circumstances, some of the responsibility of the registered keeper be temporarily transferred to another individual, such as when a car is hired.

You're so magnanimous.

What is not acceptable in a moral society, that someone can drive a motor vehicle at an innocent third party, injure them, then drive away with impunity, knowing that when questioned by the police they can say, "I don't know who was driving".

All you need to do is prove that they are lying.

Just like you need to prove that a suspected burglar is lying when he
says that he was in another country on holiday at the time of the burglary.