On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 5:48:57 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/12/2018 9:42 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/12/2018 8:11 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/12/2018 6:49 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
David Scheidt writes:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/11/2018 4:10 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
: :On 5/10/2018 11:19 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
: : Frank Krygowski wrote:
: : :On 5/10/2018 6:15 PM, John B. wrote:
: : :
: : : I suspect that you, like I, are what might be
called a sensible rider.
: : : RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have
time to dodge the
: : : door if necessary.
: :
: : :Um... no, that's not sensible.
: :
: : :Consider what happens if you're riding just 15 kph
and a driver pops his
: : :door open as you pass his rear bumper. There's no
way to stop in time.
: :
: : :If you're lucky, you'll hit his door squarely and
crumple beneath it. If
: : :you're unlucky, you'll snag the door edge with
your right handlebar, the
: : :bike will steer to the right, your body will be
thrown down to the left,
: : :and the motor vehicle you were worried about will
run over you.
: :
: : :Unlike mountain lion attacks, dooring really is a
danger. Most states
: : :don't record it as a car-bike collision, because
they record those only
: : :if the car was moving. But Chicago did keep track,
and found that
: : :something like 20% of car-bike crashes were doorings.
: :
: : And we have a $1000 fine for causing an accident by
dooring -- and the
: : cops write the tickets.
: :
: : on't ride in the door zone. Just don't.
: :
: : Yeah, you live in smallsville.Â* If I don't ride in
the door zone, it
: : takes me three times as long to get to work.
:
: :Why are those the only choices? Details, please. What
happens if you
: :move a few feet left?
:
: My commute invovles riding past a mile (literally, one
mile) of cars
: that are stopped at stop signs or lights.Â* Riding
between them and
: parked cars gets me to the light or sign in one
cycle.Â* Moving to the
: left puts me in stopped traffic.

:OK. That's an unusual situation, one that I think is
quite rare. We

Sounds like progress.Â* Several years ago I described
riding past more
than a mile of cars on a typical commute (not even
properly in the
city), and you simply refused to concede that such a thing
was possible,
never having observed it in your global travels.

I was being nice. I'm still pretty skeptical. Example: David
says the backup is "one mile (literally one mile)" but he
says if he rides past in the door zone he gets gets to the
light in one cycle.

The most common traffic light cycles are one minute, split
evenly between the two directions. OK, maybe this light has
longer cycles - say two minutes instead of one. Is he really
averaging 30 miles per hour as he rides past one mile of
cars in the door zone?

And I'm still curious about which city he's riding - and
now, which city you're riding in.

But again, I think such a situation must be pretty rare.
Give me more information to educate me.



typically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfPebMP6SMg

including a non-fatal door at 6:33. I skipped through the 18 minutes,
noting there are bike stripes which weren't there back when I ride North
Clark from time to time. Overall, on one street, you get a
representational mix of urban commuter joys and sorrows.

Nothing wrong with taking a lane when appropriate but it's not always
appropriate. Or reasonable.

I watched a lot of that video, skimming some parts. Here's how it looked
to me:

The rider appeared glued to the door zone, passing dozens of parked cars
very closely. Most of the time he was doing that, the lane appeared
empty to his left. I can only assume this guy had never even heard of
door zones. I absolutely would have avoided the door zone. (And BTW, I
saw sharrows in the door zone, bike lanes in the door zone. One serious
tip is "Don't let paint do the thinking for you." Avoid that crap.)

Once that rider got deep into central Chicago, there was one place just
before the river crossing where he passed 20 - 25 cars. That's nowhere
near a mile of cars, of course.

In that situation, would I have filtered forward? Probably so. Would I
ride in the door zone to do that? Maybe yes, maybe no. Passing on the
left is usually safer than passing on the right. If I did pass on the
right and in the door zone, I'd certainly be riding very, very slowly -
like 10 mph or so. I think blasting at speed between parked cars and
stalled traffic is really foolish.

But again, that long backup is a situation that happens only very rarely
around here. I know where that happens, and I find routes to avoid it. I
do have some situations where filtering forward might save me one
traffic light cycle. In that case, I generally do not filter forward. As
with the "No Turn on Red" intersection that leads into my neighborhood,
I think it's important to demonstrate that _some_ cyclists play by the
rules. And how is a cyclist who violates laws to save a minute any
better than a motorist who violates laws to save a minute? How will I
change my life with that minute?

For the record, I've ridden downtown traffic at 5 PM in the very heart
of Pittsburgh, in a thunderstorm. I did it by following the normal rules
of the road and taking my place in the lane. I didn't get flattened by a
bus or even honked at by a driver. I got where I was going just fine.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Filming with a GoPro or the like looks always scarier than it is in real life. You don't have to ride completely out of the doorzone. You only need to have some reaction time. Doors don't open in a millisecond. People blasting along cars within the doorzone thinking that it could not happen are stupid.

Lou