On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:00:40 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/20/2018 8:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2018 2:54 PM, Joerg wrote:

It's not that American bike facility planners never mess
up but after having lived long enough in Germany, the
Netherland and the US I can rightfully say that the German
bike facility planners are the worst of the three groups.
By far.

We've just been looking at examples of American facilities
that did not work and British facilities that did not work.
Jay has talked at length about the faults with many of
Portland's bike facilities. (Their bike boxes, installed to
reduce right hooks, instead increased right hooks greatly.)
We've talked at length about Stevenage and Milton Keynes in
England, towns purpose-built with state of the art separate
bike facilities that don't work. I recall reading about an
Ottowa, Canada cycle track that scored three car-bike
crashes in its first three weeks. A Columbus, Ohio cycle
track (on Summit Street) had 11 car-bike crashes in its
first year of operation. The same stretch of road had only 6
car-bike crashes in the four years prior to the beginning of
construction. The "bicycle highways" through London
generated a cluster of crossing conflict fatalities a few
years ago.

Joerg, don't pretend it's just incompetent designers in
America, or Germany, or Canada, or England. There are too
many examples. Basic physics and fundamental principles of
traffic movement argue against many of the designs you tout.
And green paint or copious warning signs can't prevent
crashes caused by illogical traffic interactions.


+1

As with the apologists for communism who turn hands up and
say, "Well, you can't make an omelette without breaking
eggs" I note that there's never an omelette.

The Communists, if they said that, were Johnny-come-lately as the
phrase seems to have originally been attributed François de Charette
in reference to the fatalities caused by his troops during the Vendee
war (revolt against the French First Republic).
"on ne saurait faire d'omelette sans casser des oeufs" (1742 or
earlier),
--
Cheers,

John B.