On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 06:57:28 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 3:00:56 a.m. UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 9:14:06 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 11:12:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 5/31/21 4:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2021 12:45:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 5/25/21 10:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
The Airborne looks like it will be about a half lb less weight than the Trek Emonda in the same size. One might suppose that the Trek might be more Aero but like the Airborne, it has large diameter tubes that had no attempt at being aero in design. Also one would have to question whether small diameter round steel tubes are less aero than the much larger diameter of, say, the Pinarello frameset. I can't say that I ever noticed any difference between the late Basso Loto I had and the Trek Madone which was supposedly quite aero.

Of course I'm not a pro rider and I very seldom even approach the speeds that the pros commonly get in the peloton.

But isn't that the entire point of Aero? To give you that very small gain when you ride at those sorts of speeds all day long? You sure as hell aren't going to put out these sorts of power and my entire reason for posting this is to tell you that you sure as hell aren't going to gain enough to even consider spending large amounts of money on a fantasy bike to make it worth your while.

Another point - Components are now more expensive than good frames. But China is invading that space as well. You can get a Sensah 11 speed group complete for $200. They have been working their way up from not very reliable and seem to have now hit a high enough reliability standard that I will give them a test. The failure points seem to be the levers on the previous versions but that supposedly has been reengineered to be reliable. And if it weren't so you could always buy SRAM levers which have the same pull ratio and we know that those levers are reliable. And you would still save a pile of money. I'll see after I get rid of all of my extraneous bikes.


I wish bikes would achieve at least the quality of a cheap car. But they
don't and that includes expensive stuff. Every few hundred miles
something needs maintenance, wears out of needs service. Our cars go
tens of thousands of miles without a lick of trouble, all they needs is
an oil change every 4000-5000mi.

Yesterday the MicroShift derailer on the road bike began biting the
dust. The freehub is announcing its demise as well. Same for the bottom
bracket which began noise messaging, again. For both I bought the most
expensive ones from Shimano that I could find and that would fit. Not
going to do that again.

And don't get me started on tires. Hurumph, grumble.

Well, this has been discussed before buy I would suggest (again) that
if you are willing to pay as much for a bicycle as you do for your
auto then it is highly likely that you will be able to get one that
will last practically for ever.

But you are the guy that brags about using the cheapest tires that you
can get, aren't you?

No, I buy cheap tires because with lots of bike stuff you simply do not
get what you pay for. I found out that $15 road bike tires do not last
any less on average than $50 ones. Same on the MTB. I had really
expensive tires on the rear. Lasted 800mi. Now I use $20 tires and they
last ... 800mi. Then the tread is gone.

My SUV tires cost me $80 and they last well over 50,000mi even when
often schlepping half a ton of firewood across rutty dirt roads. Now
that's what I call a good price/performance ratio.

All I am asking for is, for example, this: Offer a derailer that has
ball bearings in the linkages, a really strong cage and then charge 2x
the usual price for it. Not 10x. To heck with the extra 200 grams, offer
people some reasonable choice. There are a lot of people who aren't
weight weenies but they simply want to arrive on time. Just like they
can with their cars.

I am aware there are things such as Rohloff hubs. However, I have known
people who have crunched those or had other issues with them such as
erratic shifting and gears not holding. That simply does not happen on a
car. When I inquired about the cost that took the cake. They wanted
$1500 just for the hub. Plus tax. Plus shifter. Plus cable. Plus labor.
Crazy.
Crazy to you but not to all the people on expedition bikes headed to Tierra Del Fuego, which is considerably more difficult than riding a '70s Euro sport bike around the roads and trails in Cameron Park. http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/Th...loff_LoRes.pdf BTW, I know people (me) who have had issues with car transmissions, so I'm not surprised that some number of purchasers had issues with their Rohloff hubs -- or any other product for that matter. Every product has a failure rate.

I'm not a Rohloff fan because they're too expensive for my needs, but you apparently need a bomb-proof road bike. Get ready to pay and quit moaning about how a 3,000 pound car is more durable.

Other cheaper options include six speed and a triple and friction shift. I don't think there was an STI/Ergo 6speed system, so you're stuck with friction -- maybe some bar-ends. You can use old Deore derailleurs, which are the true survivor cockroaches of derailleurs.

-- Jay Beattie.
I think people here can't help Joerg. We tried though. What was it? Light, durable and cheap? You can choose 2 out of 3. In Joerg's case it has to be durable and cheap. That is a problem so far.

Lou

If Joerg were to cut a car tire in half and also cut a bicycle tire in
half he'd notice a major difference in thickness of tread and
sidewalls. I keep telling him to get a dirt motorcycle, remove the
engine and put a crankset and chain on it if he want's
automobile/motorcycle longevity . LOL VBEG

Cheers

Out of curiosity I did some research on "cheap bike tires" and I find
that the Chinese are selling them for as low a $1.00 each in lots.
Which for his $80/each he pays for auto tires would provide him with
sufficient tires (using his mileage figures) to ride some 800 X 80 =
64,000 miles.

I think that Joerg just likes to whine and bitch.
--
Cheers,

John B.