On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 12:40:40 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 8:21:48 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2021 8:06 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 6:57:27 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 3:45:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 6, 2021 at 3:01:37 PM UTC-7, pH wrote:
On 2021-06-04, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2021 8:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:

BTW I do most truing 'in the bike'. I only occasionally build wheels now
(when employees are 'too good' for some jobs and some customers).. The
result is the same. Although a stand with good lighting can be more
convenient it's not essential.

I built my first wheel riding in a VW van during the long drive to the
airport for our first overseas bike tour. I used the inverted bike frame
as the truing stand.

Those were the days!

Did you use Jobst's book to do the lacing, Robert Wright's "Wright-built"
technique or are you just a super-genius who figured it out on his own?

I got loand the 'wright built' pamphlet by a coworker and used it to do the
lacing on my rims. I never used Jobst's published technique, but it look
like his way would have avoided the spoke weaving I had to do for the last
course of spokes.

The tensioning process was always tough...getting the 'hop' out.

I always took care to turn each nipple the same amount before tension began
being appreciable, but, still....

I ended up with a good result but I sure don't feel like natural.

How many spokes were your wheels? As a Clydesdale I do 40 in front and 48
in back.
I was originally shown by a bike builder in Hayward. In those day wheels were 36 and/or 32 spokes. The idea of the weaving was to keep the spokes from pinging against one another if they were done that way. Once you got the hang of it you didn't even have to look at it. You would cut the spokes the proper length and then tighten the nipples up to three threads from tight and then take a half turn on every spoke until you have them as tight as they would go, which wasn't very tight on a 36 spoke wheel. If you had a hop in the wheel you did something wrong.

You must be remarkably big if you need anything more than 36 spoke wheels.
Cut the spokes? WTF? Did you have a Phil spoke thread roller?

-- Jay Beattie.

I was confused by that comment too. I always just order the right spoke lengths, minus a couple millimeters to account for stretch. Spokes come in 2 millimeter increments I think. Sapim or Wheelsmith or DT.


"right spoke lengths, minus a couple millimeters to account
for stretch"
We use stainless drawn spokes here which don't. How many
miles do you get on those pasta spokes?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Thought it was common knowledge to round down on spoke calculators. I know you want the spoke end to be at the bottom of the slot in the nipple when its completely laced up tight. Not sticking up into the slot. In theory might run out of threads on the spoke to tighten it. There is some spoke stretch, hub hole deformation, rim eyelet bulging occurring during the tightening process.

Below is from the Park Tool website. I don't know how much those numbers are. But guessing its quite a bit. I'm sure the stainless steel used in spokes is not impervious to everything. Its not Superman. So it will stretch and break with enough force. I'd guess every rider on this forum has broken stainless spokes on rides.
"Most rims have suggested ranges from 100 to 120 Kilograms-force, or 980 to 1177 Newtons."
It is nearly impossible to calculate spoke length so closely that the spoke ends exactly at the bottom of the spoke driver slots. You install the spokes using a spoke driver and then you predictably tighten the spokes up so that they all come to tension at the same time so that you don't have any bounce in the wheel. https://www.ebay.com/itm/19419427197...AOSw9zdcXz~ e

The way wheels are built today is that the spokes have a square head on what used to be the slotted end and these are installed on the end of a machine driver. The wheel machine then is set to the point where all of the nipples are sticking out of the rim and it still requires a man to start the spokes into the ends of the nipples. This requires a bit of bending of the spokes and knowing how they have to overlap.

The machine is engaged and it pulls ALL of the spokes down to the same torque in a matter of seconds. If the rim doesn't have any flaws, the wheels are perfectly straight and round. The Chinese appear to be the only one's selling a large enough market to invest in this machines but perhaps some companies like Reynolds have the quantity to afford these machines. The latest pair of carbon wheels I've received are so accurate that the truing stand can detect no misalignment of hop at all. https://www.ebay.com/itm/22320534897...4AAOSw7NNUCnKe

As an aside, in the process of setting the nipples through the spoke holes, occasionally they lose a nipple inside of the rim. This requires them to start again. But that nipple is often missed and left inside the aero rims. So when it is rotated it will rattle around in there. It is easy enough to get out. You only need to hold a spoke hole at the very bottom and shake the wheel and they will normally fall right out. But sometimes they are missed and wheels get delivered with a nipple rattling around inside of the rim.