Mike Vandeman wrote in
:

On 13 Apr 2007 11:53:36 GMT, Chris wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote in
m:

On 12 Apr 2007 11:51:21 GMT, Chris wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote in
m:

On 09 Apr 2007 16:13:34 GMT, Chris wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote in
news:cb9e13dcke6ab9m4342jdgcite90jkr393@4ax. com:

On 05 Apr 2007 12:57:39 GMT, Chris wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote in
news:kko8131tqfejarn2dk44ppb5c5p7gd0qf3@4a x.com:

On 3 Apr 2007 12:17:44 -0700, "Jimbo"
wrote:

Geesh - a little one-sided don't you think - I'm sure you'll
have great success convincing people of your way - unless of
course you get a bunch of idiots on your side - any
intelligent person can see through and realize that all the
negs can be reversed - dumbass!

Typical mountain biker. NOT ONE specific, because then you
could easily be refuted.


Mike, here is the situation as I see it.

1) I ride a mountain bike for fun and exercise, I ride a road
bike for fun and exercise, and I ride my commuter bike for
transportation and exercise. All these activities are safe

A lie.

Please be more specific, What is a lie??

"All these activities are safe."

Shades of grey. Are you suggesting that if an activity is deemed
'unsafe' by the great Mike Vandeman, we should all stop?

Yes, and stop lying. You might actually get some respect.


Here is the original statement:
1) I ride a mountain bike for fun and exercise, I ride a road bike
for fun and exercise, and I ride my commuter bike for transportation
and exercise. All these activities are safe and legal

No lies! Simply my opinion. You have an opinion that differs from
mine. Doesn't make it a lie.

Nonsense. If you said "I believe that All these activities are safe
and legal", THAT would be an opinion. But you said "All these
activities are safe and legal", which is an assertion of fact, and
therefore a LIE. You can't assert something to be a fact, and then
claim that it was only an opinion. That wouldn't hold up in court. Or
even in school.


OK Mike you win.

I believe that you are idiot, just like all the other people who have
attempted to have a rational discussion with you.



To be honest, what the hell do you care, if I get hurt, you will just
cut and paste the article here to add more credence to your very weak
argument.

Maybe if you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.

Still no response ??




and legal.

Totally irrelevant

The fact that I ride a road bike in not irrelevent to me. Can you
please be more specific?? What is irrelevent??



Response??


Still no response? You made a comment, please back it up. Maybe if
you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.


2) I ride my mountain bike where it is safe and legal (for
example Left Hand Canyon, Hall Ranch); I do not ride it where it
is prohibited (for example Rocky Mountain National Park (RMNP)).

3) I am a hiker and a backpacker. I pack in RMNP several
times a year. I have never seen a mountain biker in RMNP. I do
see huge ruts where the hiking trails are. I also see where
'social trails' are forming where hikers are avoiding the ruts.

Irrelevant.

Hikers are forming the socail trails. What is irrelevant about
that??



Hikers are causing the damage. Shouldn't you be attempting (yet
failing) to curb thier passion also??


Still no response? You made a comment, please back it up. Maybe if
you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.


Still no response ??





4) I have hiked and ridden my mountain bike on mixed use
trails (hikers, people riding mountain bikes and equestrians)
and have never seen an issue/altercation/problem between groups.
I have actually seen the opposite, where one group helped the
other with directions and/or helpful information.

In places where there a lot of mountain bikers, the hikers and
equestrians who don't like it are forced to abandon the trails.
Hence, you don't see them. Not that you would report it
honestly, if you did see a problem.

I was hiking at the time. The horses bother me MUCH more than the
mountain biker. When I am packing thru an area and you come up on
a bunch of equestrians who are absolutely destroying the trail
because it is wet, it is difficult to keep your cool. And horses
are so amazingly stupid; you have no idea what they will do next


Still no response? You made a comment, please back it up. Maybe if
you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.


Still no response ??





5) I have never accidentally killed an animal while riding
my mountain bike.

You have no way of knowing.

I have a very good idea what I am rolling over. and I repeat: I
have never accidentally killed an animal while riding my mountain
bike


Still no response? You made a comment, please back it up. Maybe if
you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.


Still no response ??




I have witnessed mule deer watch me as I ride by. They
hardly even stopped eating while we rode by.

Mule deer are notorious for not caring. Irrelevant. Elk and
bighorn sheep, on the other hand, run away. If you knew the
research, you would know that.

Are you talking about the Elk in RMNP that the toutist hand feed??
They are the ones that ruin away. LOL Stop reading white papers
and so called research, and go look for your self like we all do
every day


6) Do you honestly think you have convinced even one person
who rides a mountain bike to quit?

Of course not. Mountain bikers have no interest in the truth.
And if they did change their habits, they wouldn't have the guts
to admit it. Their friends would klil them.

I am only interested in the truth, the real truth, not some very
narrow version that you percieve as the truth. LOL My friend
would kill me ?? LOL That is too funny

Still no response? You made a comment, please back it up. Maybe if
you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.

Still no response ??






If not, you are wasting your time.

To sum it up, every argument you have to stop riding a mountain
bike is false, it is completely legal (In most places) and you
are powerless to stop it. Stop wasting you time and go work on
something you can have a real impact on.


Chris

Considering how many trails are off-limits to bikes, I have
already had an impact.

You are taking full responsibility for getting those trails
closed??
Mountain biking in RMNP has been closed for over 15 years, do
assume credit for that??


Response ??

Still no response ??





Still no response? You made a comment, please back it up. Maybe if
you stop exaggerating, you would get more respect.

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