On 2018-06-27 09:39, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2018 10:24 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-26 17:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2018 6:40 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-06-26 13:34, sms wrote:


[...]

You also have the issue that, despite the astr-turf YIMBY groups, that
families with children generally want to live in single family homes.


So do we. We also did in Europe and could walk to the dance club, to
numerous pubs, grocery stores, railroad station, almost everywhere.

How old were those European towns? When were they founded?


Doesn't matter.

I think it does matter.


Why?


The example I brought above was a new part of town, built around the
70's. 1970, that is. It works. This is the area, residential right
with industrial and there is also a large supermarket right in this
development where I shopped a lot:

https://goo.gl/maps/Urm6iarPi9B2

I think there are different cultural or social expectations in Europe,
most of which are influenced by history. Europe seems to generally have
much more restrictive land use policies, and those policies seem to
promote "infill" development.

Example: In Britain, in Austria, etc. when we bicycle toured, I was
struck by the practicality of city limits. There seemed to be a boundary
around most towns, with apartments, houses, shops etc. on one side and
little but fields and forests on the other side. We saw almost no rural
convenience stores or gas stations, for example. People have been living
close for hundreds of years, and they're used to such a system.


It sure did not look like that to me and I grew up in Europe, lived
there for decades. An example in Austria:

http://www.cipra.org/de/dossiers/rau...192dc6c65.jpeg

Here is the Reussebene, Switzerland as an example form another country:

http://www.wohnblog.ch/wp-content/up...eb-800x504.jpg

This is in the UK:

https://www.groundsure.com/wp-conten..._437777299.jpg


Here, we have a pioneer mentality. The reflex is to colonize new land,
to take possession of our own acreage, and to fight any attempt to limit
what we can do with it.

So if a realty company wants to build 30 houses, of _course_ they will
buy a corn field a few miles out of town along some farm road. The land
is cheaper out there, and there are fewer zoning rules. They'll put in
twisty residential streets with only one outlet onto that farm road.
They won't bother with sidewalks, because nobody will use them.

The residents will feel like pioneers, so proud of having a new,
all-white neighborhood out in "the country." But someone will eventually
say "Hey, I can put a gas station and convenience store at their corner
and make a killing." So the parking lot lights begin to wash away the
night sky, and the traffic increases.

Soon another realty company builds another mushroom development nearby,
which triggers a little shopping plaza, and on it goes. It all happens
at low density, because everyone wants an acre of lawn to mow.


If only it was like that. The reality is that if you want a little strip
mall or even just a neighborhood pub then city hall will say "NOOO!"
because it's all zoned residential.


Connectivity is actively discouraged, because residents don't want
strangers in their neighborhood at all. A motor vehicle - preferably an
SUV - is the only socially acceptable way to enter or leave the
neighborhood. And people wanting to escape from the traffic to and from
those developments soon buy into another development further yet from
town. The march continues. And if it's 30 miles to work or ten miles to
get most groceries, who cares?

We had friends from Dublin, Ireland stay with us some years ago. One of
their most-repeated comments was "You have so much _room_ in America!"

But they have a countryside free of endless strip malls.


Next time in Ireland don't go to Dublin but to some little town north of
Shannon, along the river. No sharply contrasting town limits, houses
everywhere, lots of space. Yet they managed to always make sure there is
a pub, a grocer, a barber and so on within walking or cycling distance.
Cycling meaning not for you and me but for people who think that
anything beyond 5mi on a bicycle is a Herculean job. I am pretty sure
that the people we met in Ireland would refuse to move to an area where
that wasn't so, where there wasn't at least a pub.

We rented a house in Killaloe, small village, looks not much different
from where I live now, just smaller. Neighborhood pubs on just about
every street corner, Mollie's Pub was five minutes walking from our
house (depending on how many pints of Guinness one has had).
Neighborhood pubs here in our area? None.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/