On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:17:22 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:11:22 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:49:44 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, February 17, 2020 at 5:04:39 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 07:14:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 9:30:11 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
"Effects of Lateral Chain Misalignment (Cross-Chaining) on Drivetrain Efficiency & Effects of Chainring Size on Drivetrain Efficiency" at
https://www.ceramicspeed.com/media/3...ize-report.pdf
has persuaded me that I will not be buying a 12- or 11-speed group! Nor 10-speed, nor even 9-speed.

Andre Jute
My Rohloff Speed 14 chainline is straight

I can't find the testing now but Connex did some tests of their 11 speed chains and had almost no losses from full cross chained to straight chains. Over the years they have developed the science of chains so well that they are so flexible that you simply don't get much in the way of loses.

This is proven by their wear tests as well since the wear test includes pushing the chains all of the way from one extreme to the other. https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...st-results.jpg


You didn't read the test. It did not include cross chaining as you
say. See:
https://www.connexchain.com/en/tests...ance-test.html

If you had read the frigging test you would have (if you can
comprehend what you read) seen that the test used:

drive train
front chain ring: 52 teeth
back sprocket: 17 teeth
test chain: 63 links
reference chain: 63 links

Or in simple terms, that you might understand, one sprocket in the
front and one in the back. No cross chaining whatsoever.

--
cheers,

John B.

That must be why the magazine description of the testing said that the chains were moved from 3" in one direction and then 3" in the other. Funny thing how actually watching the tests done seems to show things that might not otherwise be mentioned. But I'm sure that you know much more than the people who actually attended the testing. Just like Frank knows a great deal more about the height of tree limbs above the bike lane than someone that was actually struck by the limb. Between the two of you, you lick the platter clean don't you?

Nope: You said

"Wippermann-connex-chain-11-speed-wear-test-results.jpg" which shows
the results of a test using only a drive and driven sprocket. As I
pointed out in my reference (above) the test consisted of:
front chain ring: 52 teeth
back sprocket: 17 teeth
test chain: 63 links

The test with several driven sprockets and the resulting loss in power
from cross chaining was a totally different test and conducted by
CeramicSpeed. Not Whippermann.
see:
https://www.velonews.com/2019/05/gea...etrains_493185
I believe that the original testing was done by Jason Smith at his
company "FrictionFacts", which he sold to CeramicSpeed in 2014.

In short Tom, just as I've been saying all these years, "You simply do
not know what you are talking about".

I might add that there was a long discussion of the cross chaining
test right here in RBT.
--
cheers,

John B.

the tests at Wiperman we

- An in-line 5 hour run with original lubrication.
- A offset test to both left and right side for 5 min at 50 Hz and then 10 hours at 100 Hz after independent applications of water, oil and sand to the chain.
- An inline 15 hour test at 100 Hz with above mentioned pollutants, which is then repeated every 15 hours after cleaning until chains show a 1% change (or 8mm increase from DIN specified length of 800.10 mm). This change happens due to wear of pins against the roller.

Wait a minute - did it say something about left and right? Apparently your Alzheimer's is getting worse.

Strange, isn't it that you posted a reference to the wippermann-connex
test:
https://bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ss...st-results.jpg
Which doesn't mention anything about the equipment used or how the
test was accomplished.
I searched for some details of that test and I found
https://www.connexchain.com/en/tests...ance-test.html
Which contains a reference to the pretty picture that you referenced
and includes the details:

drive train
front chain ring: 52 teeth
back sprocket: 17 teeth
test chain: 63 links
reference chain: 63 links

Now you come up with all kind of details that aren't mentioned by the
"connexchain site".

Is this another Tommy moment? Where you don't remember and just make
it up?
--
cheers,

John B.