On 2017-07-10 13:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/10/2017 3:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-10 10:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/10/2017 1:20 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-09 11:16, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/9/2017 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-09 07:13, Frank Krygowski wrote:

But second, your statement wasn't even a good deflection. By
FAR, the
main cause of bicycling injury is simply falling off.


Proof, please.

Well, one respected source is _Effective Cycling_ by John Forester,
MIT
Press. Page 260 of the 6th edition says 50% of bike injuries are
due to
falls, vs. 17% due to car-bike crashes. (17% are also due to
bike-bike
crashes.) For "serious" injuries, it's 36% due to falls, 26% car-bike
crashes and 13% bike-bike crashes.


Forester is most certain not a respected source for people like myself
(or any other cyclist I personally know).

Of course you don't respect him. I already know you disagree with
anything he says, simply because it disagrees with your own
preconceptions.


With my experience, and that of most others I know.


What data do you have?


Lost. For example this:

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentra...1-2458-14-1205



And from that link: "The study population consisted of adult (≥19
years) residents of Toronto and Vancouver who were injured while riding
a bicycle in the city and treated within 24 hours in the emergency
departments of the hospitals listed above..."

So you're not looking at all injuries. You're looking at only those
injuries whom someone chose to take to the ER. It excludes the vast
majority of bike injuries precisely because the vast majority of bike
injuries are minor. (And Teschke is notorious for carefully selecting
data that can be used to promote segregated facilities for cyclists.)


The data is similar for other studies.

Which?


I am not going to repeat all that. Plus you won't even get it if listed
a dozen.


List your last few bike injuries, Joerg. Tell us what they were and how
they happened, as I did upthread. Don't omit the minor ones.


I do not keep a log of any minor ones. I have listed the serious
accidents in this thread. Mine usually involved mistakes or reckless
action by car drivers.

But that's exactly the point! You claimed that most bike injuries are
caused by car-bike crashes. I said that was patently false.


Read the study in the link again.


... By far,
most bike injuries are very minor and caused by essentially falling off
the bike. (To give more detail: most are due to problems with the
surface, like slipping on gravel, hitting a terrible pothole, hitting a
slot in the road, etc.)

The most common bike injury is listed in hospital data as "minor injury
to lower extremity." The bulk of those are, literally, skinned knees. I
person might get that from a car-bike crash, but almost all of them come
from falling off.

Have I heard of a "fall to avoid collision?" Not from the experience of
anybody I know.

Sorry to say, then you don't seem to know much about bicycling.

:-) The cycling organizations that recruited me for various instructor,
board member or other officer positions disagreed with you.



I am glad I am not a member of those.


What you really mean is, your beliefs and my beliefs differ.

Now, I know that I've gone through four separate training or
certification programs regarding cycling education. I've contributed,
through pre-production editing, to two well-respected books on cycling
education. I've written many articles for cycling publications, some of
which have been reprinted in multiple states and countries. I've
corresponded with and talked in person with people who are nationally
recognized as cycling experts. As recently as ten days ago, one of them
asked permission to use some of my writing (a review of a bike-related
academic paper). I bike commuted for many decades until I retired. I've
done countless bike trips and tours from overnight to summer-long. I've
ridden in something like a dozen countries. I've held multiple offices
in my bike club, and for seven or eight years ran our century ride when
it won a national award. I've done many century-plus rides, including
one double century.


Are you done with boasting now?


Instead of going further with that, let me stop and ask your
qualifications.


Over 100k miles of experience. I don't give a hoot about some fancy
"certification".


Over 35,000 American motorists die in a typical year. About 750
bicyclists die in a typical year. Every study done on the subject has
shown that the health and longevity benefits of bicycling greatly
outweigh its tiny risks.

Man up, stop whining, and learn to ride your bike correctly.


You will obviously never understand what "per mile" means.

I know that John Pucher of Rutgers has published (in "Making Walking
and Cycling Safer: Lessons from Europe") an estimate from U.S. data that
bicyclists suffer 109 fatalities per billion km ridden. Pedestrians
suffer 362 fatalities per billion km, three times as bad.

Those numbers work out to 5.7 million miles ridden, or 1.7 million miles
walked, per fatality. Pucher's later estimates from U.S. data were even
more favorable, over ten million miles ridden per fatality.

If bicycling is far safer PER MILE than even walking, why do you pretend
it's dangerous?


When you run out of arguments you veer off topic, again and again. We
are talking motor vehicles versus bicycles. Stay on topic. I know it's
hard for you :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/