On 2018-08-03 10:31, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 3, 2018 at 7:55:08 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 16:59, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 11:50:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 11:07, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


... He rides on the road, and for the last four years before
returning home to PDX, most of his riding involved
high-angle climbing in the canyons of the Wasatch riding with
the University of Utah team. Until he got his Trek, he was
riding my CAAD 9 with wheels that I built for him that are in
beautiful shape to this day -- old Ultegra hubs, DT 14/15 3X
spokes (32) and el-cheapo DT R460 rims. He did get a spoke
hole crack on a predecessor DT R450, but no failures. You are
buying junk or doing something wrong if you are ruining
freehubs and spokes with your massive leg muscles.


It's ok stuff, Mavic rims, stainless spokes, Shimano freehubs,
Shimano BB (I buy the most expensive versions for each bike). A
few thousand miles into it the BB on the road bike starts
clicking again. Hurumph! I no longer care much about such noise
and ride it until the play is so bad that the FD isn't wide
enough for it. With friction shifters you can let that go quite
far.

Are the loud "angry bee" freehubs that some riders use better
and Shimano-compatible?

Octalink BBs suck, although not as bad as ISIS. Both suffer
from too-small balls, although you may just need to reinstall
with some teflon tape. That often cures snaps and creaks -- but
if it is a pitted/deformed ball, you're screwed.


I only have Octalink on the MTB. Getting less than 10000mi there
is (somewhat) ok. For a bicycle. Because it's exposed to crazy
amounts of dust, water animal poop, rock hits and who knows what.
On the road bike I have square taper. Until recently the adjustable
ones with loose ball cages. It's not the balls or the cups that
wore but the spindle surfaces. Of course, with these I could get a
2nd life out of them by mounting everything offset by 180 degrees.
3rd and 4th lives not so much because the pitting was over more
than 90 degrees but one could milk another few thousand miles there
as well.

Those have become unobtanium so I mounted a UN44 cartridge BB, the
more pricey version with all metal cups. That disappoints a little
in that it already starts clicking.


The angry-bee hubs are only better in that they have more points
of engagement. 72 points of engagement with CK ring drive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1DJCryVEk Woohoo! My power is
delivered .00001 second faster. I guess its a pretty tough
design, but far too pricey for me.


To me only longevity and robustness counts. Price, too, but I'd be
willing to spend $100 if it was lasting seriously longer. Weight
does not matter. What I think causes the pawl failures on my
freehubs is the wearing out of their bearings and then the pawls
don't engage straight anymore. Over just a few thousand miles the
freehub develops serious bearing play. Shimano, Formula, brand
doesn't seem to matter. That can't be good, especially during rain
rides or on dusty trails.


Whether other angry bee designs are better in terms of longevity
depends on bearing and metal quality. My OE Norco rear hub has a
nice buzzing sound, but I would bet that they are dirt cheap
Joytech OE hubs with equally cheap cartridge bearings.

And yes the angry bees are Shimano compatible unless you
accidentally buy a Campagnolo compatible hub.


Thanks, good to know. I just hear a lot of the local road bikers
having such freehubs. On a downhill you can hear them coming ...
GRRRRRRR


I need to press in a new bearing cartridge on my son's Vison
Metron front wheel, which has a woefully undersized cartridge,
IMO. I think they wanted to keep the flanges and hub body small.
Anyway, knocking out and pressing in cartridges is more work than
greasing some big, burly balls, but I guess the upside is that
you never have to worry about wearing out a bearing cup or cone.
I leave it to Andrew to opine on the durability issues of the two
designs. My Shimano hubs have lasted a long time, and my Dura Ace
wheels run really smoothly and have been durable so far.


My dad usually didn't do such jobs for me, just once. He said
"Son, today I am going to show you how it's done so next time you
can do it yourself" :-)

I'll make him watch, whether he does future replacements is yet to be
seen. He did bicycle assembly at one shop, but he's not a devoted
mechanic. He is more clever getting warranty work, though, ...


.... and in getting his dad to do the work. In the Netherlands we had a
word for that but it isn't a very nice one :-)


... and
doesn't mind taking things to a shop. This might just be a warranty
job. We'll see. I did some adjusting, and the bearings are
passable, but one cartridge is clearly on its way out. He's already
gotten a full wheelset replacement because the first set had a bad
angry bee freehub or some other problem. My father gave me some
excellent electrical wiring advice, which I follow to this day:
"don't stand in a puddle." Cutting the power was optional. He didn't
know anything about fixing bikes.


My first boss used to be an electrician before he got his EE degree. He
isn't very tall and his solution for live work on circuits was to stand
onto an inverted bucket. If he accidentally touched more than one metal
part and they were at different potential he'd (hopefully) get the
shakes and fall off the bucket.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/