On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 20:58:53 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/23/2019 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:16:53 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/23/2019 6:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:48:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:36:22 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
https://cyclingindustry.news/shimano...tem-for-bikes/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I'm familiar with various forms of ABS, from the crude version taken off Boeing passenger jets for the Jensen Interceptor FF* (Formula Ferguson four wheel drive, developed for grand prix cars) which took the better part of a second to respond, to the modern versions. But I've commented before that a really pleasing ABS effect came with a Gazelle Toulouse c2004 (the black crow sleeper -- http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGgazelletoulouse.html -- before the Toulouse went all trendy) which had a disc brake at the front and a limp early model -41 Shimano roller brake at the back which almost automatically stopped the rear overtaking the front on wet downhills, so, while you had to be careful with the on-off nature of the wretched Shimano front disc, you just slammed the rear brake lever to the stops and held it there to stabilise the bike. I actually considered fitting an older, limper roller brake on my Trek Smover in the place of the Shimano IM70 roller --
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html -- which I found too sharp for a rear brake even on a sporting bike, though on the front it was superior to a disc.


Errr. TOM! The Jensen Interceptor FF used the Dunlop's Maxaret the
first anti-lock braking system (ABS) to be widely used. Introduced in
the early 1950s,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_FF

"The Jensen FF is a four-wheel drive grand tourer produced by British
car manufacturer Jensen Motors between 1966 and 1971. It was the first
non all-terrain production car equipped with four-wheel drive and an
anti-lock braking system.

The use of four-wheel drive in a passenger car preceded the successful
AMC Eagle by thirteen years and the Audi Quattro by fourteen years,
and the Subaru Leone by five years. The Dunlop Maxaret mechanical
anti-lock braking system had previously been used only on aircraft,
lorries, and racing cars.

As a comment, it might have been a "crude version" but the earliest
versions of the Maxaret system reduced stopping distances by a third.

Tom, do try to get it right next time.

Get what right?

"crude version taken off Boeing passenger jets for the Jensen Interceptor FF"

Which is what you rephrased.

O.K. I'll I say that I doubt very much that the Jensen utilized a
crude ABS system taken off a Boeing passenger jet as it seems unlikely
that it would fit, if for no other reason. In addition Boeing had been
installing anti-skid systems, or ABS in modern termonology, in their
military aircraft since 1947 and their first commercial jet, the 707,
since 1958. The Jensen FF was built from 1966 til 1971.

Given that anti-skid brakes are far more critical to modern high speed
jet aircraft than to automobiles do you really believe that after
nearly 20 years of use on some of the most advanced large aircraft in
the world that the anti-skid system would be describbed as "crude"?

But of course, it sounds very colorful and excieting if you don't know
a bit of history about the systems (or what you are talking about :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


Some might say 'innovative' being the first of its kind:

http://www.jensenmuseum.org/dunlop-maxaret/

Well, in the sense of being used on a car. The same basic concept was
used on aircraft in the 1920's :-) And as I previously wrote Boeing
was using an anti-skid system on the B-47 in the late 1940's.

Others might say 'crude' as compared to modern systems.

That I can't comment on that as I am only familiar with those used on
some aircraft which consisted of a sensor to detect wheel rotation, or
maybe speed of rotation, an electric or electronic control system and
a power system control.

I would comment that the systems worked satisfactorily, or at least
satisfactorily enough that wheel locking or skidding didn't seem to be
a factor in high performance aircraft landings. The F-4, the hottest
thing I was around, was limited by the brakes themselves. On a heavy
landing they got red hot and the discs warped.

I believe that some aircraft also incorporate a compressed air
emergency braking system but I have no idea of whether that is tied
into the anti-skid system.
--
cheers,

John B.