On 2018-02-28 10:44, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:00:12 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-27 18:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 5:02:45 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-27 13:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/27/2018 1:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I don't see any place for horses on popular public forest
trails or unleashed dogs -- one of which nearly tackled my
wife, who is not as robust as she once was. There are far,
far too many dogs in the world.

"A well-trained dog is a joy and a delight. An untrained dog
is a damned nuisance. Most dogs are untrained." - Stewart
Brand

Within the last two days:

A) on my mountain bike, I thought I would get run into by a
large dog running illegally off-leash in our local forest
preserve. The owner didn't hear me coming because she was
yakking on her cell phone. She apologized, but continued
allowing her dogs to run.

B) Our very nice neighbors' micro-dog has yapped loudly when
it saw me outside. It also yapped loudly when it didn't see
me outside, because it yaps incredibly loudly any time
anything catches its attention. That's true even at 7 AM.

C) I spent some time with a very sweet, intelligent Golden
Retriever at a friend's house. But that young dog is still
too excitable to be trusted not to jump on guests. Hopefully
it will calm down as it matures.

I've known a very few very nice dogs. I've known a few
tolerable dogs. I've known or encountered hundreds of
obnoxious dogs. Unless a person lives in the country and
hunts, farms or runs a ranch, I don't see the attraction.


Join us and our two Labradors who are trained therapy dogs on
a visit to an Alzheimer's place. Dogs can open peoples minds
there like no human ever can. On of our dogs was guiding a
blind woman for a while. In San Francisco, not on a ranch. How
do you suppose that should be done without a dog?

I was in a surgery waiting room a few years ago and some
candy-striper brought in a "therapy dog" to calm the anxious
family members, and all the other dogs people had smuggled into
the waiting room started barking. It was like a f****** dog
pound. Not calming for me. Plus, it's like forced dog petting --
you are a monster unless you pet the f****** dog and remark to
the handler about what a great dog it is. Again, not calming for
me.

As Frank said, "working dogs" are a different animal. Guide
dogs, drug sniffing dogs, herding dogs, etc. can justify their
often massive carbon footprints. As for "therapy" dogs, why not
cats, lizards, fish, robots? I'd take a Swedish underwear model
with a vodka tonic.

"The studies based on robot substitutes yielded positive
results. These studies suggest the possibility of using robot
substitutes for patients with Dementia, but further studies are
required to better define the technique. Shibata et al., 2001 The
text of the note suggest that robot therapy has the same effects
on people as animal therapy and are currently conducting an
experiment in a dementia care centre in Denmark. Preliminary
results obtained from the 7-month clinical trial showed positive
effects on elderly patients' mental health, but a larger patient
sample and control group were necessary to scientifically verify
the study's effects."

Review; Animal-assisted interventions for elderly patients
affected by dementia or psychiatric disorders: A review; (2013)
47 EJPSYR 6 762-773

If you really care about the environment, you do not own two
dogs just to own two dogs -- or three or five or ten. I see
goddamned dog herds on some of the MUPs.


Obviosly you have never been arond a lot of people with
Alzheimer's. I have, for decades.

I have. My sister-in-law died of Alzheimer's. My father-in-law was
in a facility for 11 years before he died. My son spent the first
four years of his life running around the place. I suspect he was
more therapeutic to the occupants than a dog.


As a kid, yes. As an adult, not likely.


... As an ambulance driver
in the '70s and '80s, I was transporting Alzheimers patients before
there was even a diagnostic criteria for the disease. And before
that, I was delivering pharmaceuticals to what we euphemistically
called "rest homes" starting at age seven. My father was a
pharmacist, and we owned a small-town drug store. I've been seeing
people with senile dementia and Alzheimers in clinical and long-term
care settings since I was a kid.

And what does this have to do with the over-population of dogs?
There is no proof of any long-term benefit to Alzheimer's patients
from dog-therapy, ...


There is for us, big time. Just one example out of many:

An old man in an Alzheimer's facility lit up when he saw the dog I had
with me. The dog sensed it, as he nearly always does, and put his head
in the lap of the old man (he was in a wheelchair). Surprisingly the man
started to talk, a lot. Mainly about the dog he had in his store all the
time. How much he missed her. That he needs to go back to the store now
to pick her up. Except Ginger had passed away decades ago. He also told
me a lot about running a store, about their farm, what happened in the
old days, and so on. Almost a whole hour.

Someone from the staff came by. "How on earth did you get HIM to chat?
He never talks much!" ... "I didn't, my dog did". The next surprise
happened at the following visit. Of course the man had forgotten my name
and didn't particularly react to seeing me because most people with
Alzheimer's do not remember anything in the recent past. I was just a
new person he'd never seen. Yet his face lit up again when he saw the
dog and then he addressed the dog by its name.


... and other therapies are equally effective -- like
people and robots, even fish.


I seriously doubt fish would get anyone who has become reclusive to
talk. People often don't either.


... Everybody claims their dog is a
therapy, companion, assist dog, generally as a dodge to get the
damned thing into a restaurant or movie theater or to prove its
incredible importance to society. It's the new thing to do. It's
right up there with "owning a dog is just like raising a child!"
Right.

As a society, we used to have a reasonable perspective on pets. We
didn't have a neurotic attachment to dogs as some sort of furry
Xanax. Society is now over-dosing on furry Xanax. Love your dog, but
make it one dog -- or maybe two tiny dogs -- split the dose.


The companion or comfort animal is overblown these days but certified
therapy dogs are very different. Just as guide dogs for blind people
they are like soldiers. At home they are normal dogs, barking, romping
around, chasing each other and all that. The minute they have their
jackets on their behavior changes from childish to professional. They
also have no problem when handlers get switched if this happens "on duty".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/