On 11/6/2015 6:10 PM, DougC wrote:
I am still going on the tire-making thing. The last machine
to convert to digital control is nearly done.

Some time ago I found a topic on the velomobile.de forum,
that was about "DIY tires". I posted in it to later find out
that it wasn't really about making tires; it was about
making home-made wooden 20" tubular rims, on which to mount
cut-down tubular tires.

People talked anyway tho and at one point someone asked how
I was folding the casings I was making: was I folding both
edges over to the same side, or in a Z-arrangement (which he
said was described as the "Italian method").

From that time I would occasionally search online for any
information about this term, or of bicycle casing methods in
general, and I've never found anything. I've even tried
searching for pertinent German and Italian terms, and got
nothing.... Is there any info online that any of you have
come across? Or even any books (printed) that delved into
the matter?

There's more info about making tubulars, but then,,, it
seems that most tubulars are made about 98% the same.

------

Once in a while I turn up a bit more info, but it takes a
lot of looking to find even a little something new.
On this page-
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...factory-176590

tiny---------
http://tinyurl.com/ppgp5dc

{points are numbered to make arguing easier}

[Item #1]
First is this bit:
"... The first test sees the tyre run against a drum at
50kph continuously for an entire week — the equivalent of
7,000km — also receiving three shocks from various angles
with every rotation, the perfect simulation for your average
British road surface. ..."

You see one of these machines in the "How It's Made" video
for bicycle tires (that was also made at a Continental
factory, IIRC) but they don't say how fast or how far a tire
gets test-run. (~4349 miles @ 31mph, for the non-conformant
among us)

[Item #2]
The next interesting part is this bit:
"... Second, Continental tests how the tyre interacts with
the rim. The rim is lubricated with silicone and the tyre
pumped up to twice its maximum pressure (something in the
region of 240psi/16.4 bar) to check that it will never pop
off the rim in real-world use. ..."

This would seem to cast a major question on the validity of
the Brandt/Rinard cut-tire-bead tests.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/tirebead.htm
Not that either test was faked--but that it represented an
"ideal" circumstance, of a modern tire on a modern (dry &
clean) rim, that attempted to draw conclusions about all
clincher bicycle tires and rims (even those not modern, nor
dry and clean).

[Item #3]
For a great many years, many bicycle rims did not have
hooked edges and yet the tires still remained on them. If it
was not due to bead strength, what other factor was there?

[Item #4]
Also claiming that "bead looseness plays no part" ignores
the many many incidents of people experiencing broken tire
beads when trying to use non-tubeless tires on Stan's
NoTubes setups. Usually after a tire would break its bead
cord this way, the tire was useless and would not stay
mounted, even with an inner tube inside (occasionally
someone would see a steel-bead break, but usually when this
happened it was a kevlar-bead tire).

[Item #5]
If you search MTB web forums now, you may well notice that
broken beads on tubeless MTB setups is not nearly as common
an issue as it was 4-5 years ago.
That could be for at least two different reasons:
1--tire manufacturers have adopted a more-stringent test for
their products, and tire beads are made stronger now
(particularly MTB tire beads...?)
2--nowadays there are more choices of tubeless rims and
tires, so more people desiring tubeless setups are buying
rims and tires made for that purpose.


I am not an expert on tire manufacturing or design theory
but, as regards broken tire beads, the early tubeless
aficionados used thick rim liners which meant sometimes
excessive force in mounting to get the bead over the rim
edge. Severe kinks and tears at the bead edge from hamhanded
mounting probably adds to the problem. We saw a lot of that,
less now. I don't think there's anything inherent to
tubeless which would cause that otherwise.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971