On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 09:39:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-09 17:25, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:39:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-08 21:36, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 15:20:34 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-04 21:41, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 08:00:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-03 17:47, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 07:53:04 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-01 19:23, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-01 13:39, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 12:35:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

A lever is never supposed to bottom out before the brake force on
respective wheel is maxed. If it did then he'd have faulty brakes
and I am sure he'd not have posted this. The guys look like serious
cyclists who know this.

How old are you again Joerg? With even the old Campy brakes it was
possible to bottom out the levers often without locking the wheels.


I clearly consider that a faulty brake system. In Germany they would
instantly disqualify a motor vehicle with such a flaw and not even let
you ride it off the TUEV test site.

But Jeorg, you aren't in Germany.


So that makes it ok to tool around in traffic with faulty equipment?

Goodness! You mean that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is
automatically faulty and absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the
world?


A vehicle where the brake force is not at absolute max with full
actuation is faulty. Always.


Somehow, I don't think that you are correct.


So you honestly think that a bike where the levers bottom out while the
wheels are still not locked up is "safe to go"?

If that's true I am glad you are no longer maintaining aircraft. I have
a very different philosophy about safety.

Ah Joerg, such squirming about.

You say that it isn't acceptable in Germany and I remind you that you
aren't in Germany. You then argue that "it isn't safe to fool around
in traffic with faulty equipment" and I ask you " Goodness! You mean
that if it isn't acceptable in Germany it is automatically faulty and
absolutely cannot be used in the rest of the world?"

Now you are into brake levers and you have never answered the question
of whether if it isn't approved in Germany it can't be used anywhere?

So lets get back to the basic point. You imply that something that is
unacceptable in Germany should not be used in the rest of the world
and I say "Somehow, I don't think that you are correct."

After we settle the question of German superiority we can get into the
brake levers and all the other bumph.

Or of course, we could discuss brake levers and ignore the whole
question of what is approved in Germany as immaterial.


What nonsense. This is _not_ about countries, this is about riding
around on unsafe equipment and endangering self as well as others. It's
just that some countries check this sort of stuff for some vehicles
while in others they don't give a hoot and let the more careless people
crash.

Well, if it is about riding and not countries why did you bring up the
argument that it wouldn't be allowed in Germany?


Merely to show that bottoming-out brake actuators are considered a
safety hazard by agencies or notified bodies. In Germany and some other
parts of the world it is mandatory to have motor vehicles checked for
that stuff, in others it isn't.


And what in the world does Germany have to do with anything. Why, they
can't even speak English. How can their opinions count for anything?


For the last time: It was merely an _example_ and it doesn';t matter
which country. The German TUEV knows very well what is safe and what
isn't. They have legal authority to non-op a vehicle that won't pass the
test. In most US states you don't have such tests and thus it doesn't
get discovered if an operator is as careless as had been described in
this thread. In NY they have tests AFAIK and I am sure their authorities
will also non-op a vehicle when the brake actuator bottoms out before
full brake force has been reached. As they should.

If it is merely an example, we might compare, oh say Vietnam which is
a little larger then Germany with ~95 million to Germany's 82 million
population. Nope, don't see any bicycle inspections required there. Or
maybe Bangladesh? About twice the population and not a bike inspection
in sight.

Then, of course, we have India and China with about 33 times the
population of Germany.... still no mandatory bicycle inspection.



It is unsafe no matter what and this was only an example.


Since you either don't understand it or don't want to understand, any
further discussion about this with you is useless.

Of course I don't understand it. Here you are in America and arguing
that "it wouldn't be allowed in Germany".


It isn't allowed in the US either but in most states nobody ever checks.
Until there is a nasty crash. Then the insurance lawyers will try to
find out and (rightfully) sue and subrogate.


Not germane at all. Unless, of course, California has become a
province of Germany, that is.


You seem to have a hard time understanding logic.

No, not really. I just can't equate what they do in Germany with what
is the proper thing to do in the U.S. I mean, a bunch of guys jumping
about in leather shorts and drinking beer?


Educate yourself on roadworthiness checks. In some areas of this world
they are mandatory, in others they aren't.

Exactly. Germany, apparently inspects bicycles while the majority of
the world... including the U.S. where you now live, doesn't. Is this
proof that Germany does good while the rest of the world does bad? Or
is it proof that Germany restricts an individual's freedom to do what
he/she wants even more then any other country.

And, if it is proof that Germany is a better place whatever are you
doing in the U.S. where things are so chaotic?

--
Cheers,

John B.