On Friday, July 5, 2019 at 4:24:39 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/5/2019 4:34 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 5, 2019 at 12:12:03 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/5/2019 1:22 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
Someone here commented on my posting that the latest cheap Chinese deep rim carbon fiber tubeless wheels have somewhat slack spokes and that causes the wheels to be very sensitive to side gusts of wind.

I have tested the tight spoke clincher 50 mm rims against the slack spoke 55 mm rims and the difference in steering is dramatic. The looser spokes in the wheels makes the wheels so unpredictable in side winds that I have to slow up a great deal.

In calm or constant winds the slack spoke wheels handle just the same as the clinchers with tight spokes. Moreover, you cannot feel more effect from the side gusts on the tight spoked clincher rim than you can on a normal pair of aluminum Campy wheels.

So anyone that doesn't believe being able to manually push a wheel over until it touches the brake pads on either side, with the looser spokes, doesn't effect steering ought to try it before commenting on it.

Here's a super competent and rather famous bicycling engineer said on
this point:

"1. Does stiffness vary with spoke tension? Some believe that a wheel
built with tighter spokes is stiffer. It is not. Wheel stiffness does
not vary significantly with spoke tension unless a spoke becomes totally
slack."

He actually did tests. You know, measurements? Using repeatable machine
shop equipment like dial indicators and the like?

That's at https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel_index.html

This is very easy to understand based on the fundamental physics -
specifically, the applied engineering branch of physics known as
Strength of Materials or Theory of Elasticity.

--
- Frank Krygowski

It never surprises me when you refer to someone else for knowledge you do not have yourself.

First, Tom, I bother to correct only a small percentage of your online
flubs and fictions.

But I mentioned this about a week ago because I _do_ have the knowledge
myself. I did get it from "someone else," back when I was getting my
engineering degrees.

But to a mechanical or civil engineer, the principle is elementary. Have
you never seen and understood a steel's stress-strain curve? Have you
not noticed that it's linear until your extremely close to the yield
point? Do you not see the implication regarding stiffness?

No, you probably don't see. So I decided to find you a web link that was
more specific, hoping that you'd have a better chance at understanding it..

So given those extremely specific test results, do you now understand?

If this is the case, why not have any sort of spoke installed and not have the stiffest steel possible? Duhhhhhh.

Sorry, that bit of blather was too vague to make sense.

But about "any sort of spoke": If you want a stiffer wheel, use thicker
spokes. Or use more spokes. Or read _The Bicycle Wheel_ which contains
actual (gasp!) engineering instead of folklore. Try to understand it. I
can help.


--
- Frank Krygowski

I said that these are carbon fiber aero rims. Now explain to me how the stress curve of the steel spokes has any effect on that. It must be your engineering degree speaking again.

When I say that I can push the rim over until it touches the brake pad on the rims with the looser spokes and I cannot do that with the one's with a lot of tension on them and that doesn't ring at the very least a warning bell in your supposed brain I have to wonder just what sort of engineer you are.