Remarkable difference in chain wear

Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random.. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.

Lou

Opinion. I would guess you rode different terrain on the two bikes. Maybe more hard sprinting or climbing on the worn out aluminum chain bike. Easy flat downhill tailwind riding on the carbon chain bike. Or you chose the aluminum chain bike when the weather was rainy, roads dirty. And rode the carbon chain on sunny nice days. Despite your insistence that you had no preference in bikes, you obviously chose the carbon for more riding mileage. Some preference made you ride it more miles. If you were completely impartial in choice, the mileage would be much closer over three years. So type of terrain, effort of riding, and weather conditions caused the chain wear difference.

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 11:58:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.

Lou

Cleaning a chain kills them faster than leaving an externally dirty chain. While I have chain cleaners and I have powerful stuff to wash off the lube I have found that the original chain grease installed by the manufacturer is by FAR the best lubricant. I get thousands of miles without wear with only the original nasty chain grease but only perhaps 1500 miles using over-the-counter chain lubes.

So what probably happened was that you washed that grease out from the inside of the links and figured that your Rohloff chain lube was sufficient.

On 4/25/2017 2:58 PM, wrote:

Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.


What was the wax based lube?

It looks like 3mm stretch on the CF with Record, vs. 13.5mm stretch on
the Aluminum bike with Chorus. Am I reading that right?

Adjusting for mileage, you had 5.5 times the wear on the Chorus bike.

Converting units to match an ancient U.S. magazine article: The Record
bike had 9432km/3mm or 49,000 miles per inch of chain stretch. The
Chorus bike had 7563km/13.5mm or 8870 miles per inch.

These are within the amazingly wide range quoted in this article
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/
and
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/

He found as low as 2700 miles per inch of stretch with liquid chain
lube, and as high as 50,000 miles with pure paraffin wax. So again, your
figures are within his ranges.

You don't say how long you used the Rohloff lube. I wonder if it picked
up road dust and carried it into the chain's internal spaces, and did so
to produce faster wear even after you returned to wax.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 1:06:03 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2017 2:58 PM, wrote:
Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.

What was the wax based lube?

It looks like 3mm stretch on the CF with Record, vs. 13.5mm stretch on
the Aluminum bike with Chorus. Am I reading that right?

Adjusting for mileage, you had 5.5 times the wear on the Chorus bike.

Converting units to match an ancient U.S. magazine article: The Record
bike had 9432km/3mm or 49,000 miles per inch of chain stretch. The
Chorus bike had 7563km/13.5mm or 8870 miles per inch.

These are within the amazingly wide range quoted in this article
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/
and
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/

He found as low as 2700 miles per inch of stretch with liquid chain
lube, and as high as 50,000 miles with pure paraffin wax. So again, your
figures are within his ranges.

You don't say how long you used the Rohloff lube. I wonder if it picked
up road dust and carried it into the chain's internal spaces, and did so
to produce faster wear even after you returned to wax.

That chart shows the really remarkable lubricating qualities of the heavy greases It can gather lost of dirt on the outside but it can't get into the rollers.

Because this dirt can wear the rings and cassettes I always wipe the outside of the chain off and sometimes use light soap and water when cleaning the bike. This won't penetrate that roller grease barrier.

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 9:31:41 PM UTC+2, wrote:
Opinion. I would guess you rode different terrain on the two bikes. Maybe more hard sprinting or climbing on the worn out aluminum chain bike. Easy flat downhill tailwind riding on the carbon chain bike. Or you chose the aluminum chain bike when the weather was rainy, roads dirty. And rode the carbon chain on sunny nice days. Despite your insistence that you had no preference in bikes, you obviously chose the carbon for more riding mileage. Some preference made you ride it more miles. If you were completely impartial in choice, the mileage would be much closer over three years. So type of terrain, effort of riding, and weather conditions caused the chain wear difference.

We have only one terrain her in the Netherlands ;-) The difference in mileage can partly be explained by the fact that I build the Al bike 4 months later. Weather is certainly not a criteria which bike I use. When it rains I use the bike that is the dirtiest at that moment. My theory is that the time I used the Rohloff lube ****ed up that chain because it attracts dirt like horseshoe attracts flies.

Lou

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 9:42:19 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 11:58:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.

Lou

Cleaning a chain kills them faster than leaving an externally dirty chain.. While I have chain cleaners and I have powerful stuff to wash off the lube I have found that the original chain grease installed by the manufacturer is by FAR the best lubricant. I get thousands of miles without wear with only the original nasty chain grease but only perhaps 1500 miles using over-the-counter chain lubes.

For your information the first think I do when I put on a new chain is wash out the factory stuff. It attracts to much dirt and don't mix with the wax base lube I use.


So what probably happened was that you washed that grease out from the inside of the links and figured that your Rohloff chain lube was sufficient.

What I believe is that the Rohloff lube attract to much dirt and sand that worked its way into the internals. After a short time it was an incredible mess.

Lou

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 10:06:03 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2017 2:58 PM, wrote:
Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.

What was the wax based lube?

It looks like 3mm stretch on the CF with Record, vs. 13.5mm stretch on
the Aluminum bike with Chorus. Am I reading that right?

That is correct.


Adjusting for mileage, you had 5.5 times the wear on the Chorus bike.

Converting units to match an ancient U.S. magazine article: The Record
bike had 9432km/3mm or 49,000 miles per inch of chain stretch. The
Chorus bike had 7563km/13.5mm or 8870 miles per inch.

These are within the amazingly wide range quoted in this article
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/
and
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/

He found as low as 2700 miles per inch of stretch with liquid chain
lube, and as high as 50,000 miles with pure paraffin wax. So again, your
figures are within his ranges.

OK, but it is something I never encountered so far on my road bikes. I am used to 3 mm stretch after 8000 km using my lube and cleaning regime. Most of the time I put on a new chain because shifting gets a bit sloppy because of the lateral play, not the stretch. The cassettes last 3 chains that way.


You don't say how long you used the Rohloff lube.

1000-1500 km I guess.

I wonder if it picked
up road dust and carried it into the chain's internal spaces, and did so
to produce faster wear even after you returned to wax.


That is my theory also.


Lou

On 4/25/2017 1:58 PM, wrote:
Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF. Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put 9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes (for the first time on the CF bike btw) an
d compared them to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.


Wonder not. Spend a few quality minutes with Mr Brandt he

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/

Section #8d.2

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/25/2017 3:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2017 2:58 PM, wrote:
Mid 2014 I build two new road bikes, one Al and one CF.
Both frames of the same brand (Canyon). CF bike is
equipped with a Campy Super Record 11 sp gruppo and the Al
one with a Campy Chorus 11 sp gruppo. Everything brand
new. Because they are of the same brand the geometry is
exactly the same and I have no preference for one of the
bikes and the choice for a ride is random. So far I put
9342 km on the CF bike and 7563 km on the Al one. On both
bikes the first chain is still on, both Record 11 speed
chains. Since I am spoiled with the lifetime of Campy
chains I don't check the chain wear very often. Lately I
noticed a noisy drivetrain on the Al bike and I checked
the chain wear. To my surprise it showed a significant
wear. The cassette is shot on that bike for sure. I was
worried about the wear of the chain on the CF bike since I
put 2000 more km on it and the Super Record cassette is
much more expensive. I took of the chains of both bikes
(for the first time on the CF bike btw) and compared them
to a new chain to determine the elongation. The difference
in chain wear was remarkable! I took some pictures tonight:

https://goo.gl/photos/PYS6h1GjPabv8dpH7

The only difference I can think of is that on the Al bike
I used Rohloff chain lube for a while instead of the wax
based lube I normally use. Because it left an incredible
mess I stopped using it, cleaned the chain and started
using the wax based lube again.

I am puzzled.

What was the wax based lube?

It looks like 3mm stretch on the CF with Record, vs. 13.5mm
stretch on the Aluminum bike with Chorus. Am I reading that
right?

Adjusting for mileage, you had 5.5 times the wear on the
Chorus bike.

Converting units to match an ancient U.S. magazine article:
The Record bike had 9432km/3mm or 49,000 miles per inch of
chain stretch. The Chorus bike had 7563km/13.5mm or 8870
miles per inch.

These are within the amazingly wide range quoted in this
article
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/

and
https://www.flickr.com/photos/169722...posted-public/


He found as low as 2700 miles per inch of stretch with
liquid chain lube, and as high as 50,000 miles with pure
paraffin wax. So again, your figures are within his ranges.

You don't say how long you used the Rohloff lube. I wonder
if it picked up road dust and carried it into the chain's
internal spaces, and did so to produce faster wear even
after you returned to wax.



I also think that's the most probable explanation.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971