Maintenance Manuals

"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol

At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book

/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.


procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad

Frank Drackman wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol
At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book
/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad



And completely wrong, it's not what the book says at all.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:38:15 -0400, Peter Cole
wrote:

Frank Drackman wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol
At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book
/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad


And completely wrong, it's not what the book says at all.

Dear Peter,

Here's what the 3rd edition says:

FINDING THE RIGHT TENSION

The following method works well in determining proper spoke tension
for conventional road rims of up to 43 0 grams with 36 spokes. Tighten
all the spokes a quarter turn at a time, starting at the valve stem
hole. Once a distinct tone can be made by plucking, and spokes are not
easily squeezed together by grasping them in pairs, it is time to
check tension. After each round of tightening, test the tension by
stress relieving. If the wheel becomes untrue in two large waves
during stress relieving, the maximum, safe tension has been exceeded.
Approach this tension carefully to avoid major rim distortions. When
the wheel loses alignment from stress relieving, loosen all spokes a
half turn before retruing the wheel

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:38:15 -0400, Peter Cole
wrote:

Frank Drackman wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol
At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book
/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".
I guess that we all saw that coming...sad

And completely wrong, it's not what the book says at all.

Dear Peter,

Here's what the 3rd edition says:

FINDING THE RIGHT TENSION

The following method works well in determining proper spoke tension
for conventional road rims of up to 43 0 grams with 36 spokes. Tighten
all the spokes a quarter turn at a time, starting at the valve stem
hole. Once a distinct tone can be made by plucking, and spokes are not
easily squeezed together by grasping them in pairs, it is time to
check tension. After each round of tightening, test the tension by
stress relieving. If the wheel becomes untrue in two large waves
during stress relieving, the maximum, safe tension has been exceeded.
Approach this tension carefully to avoid major rim distortions. When
the wheel loses alignment from stress relieving, loosen all spokes a
half turn before retruing the wheel

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

which is as complete a description of how to achieve spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" as there ever was!

Frank Drackman wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol
At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book
/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad


what's sad? having to correct gross error? or being gullible so that
having smoke blown up your skirt seems like it's a good thing?

In article ,
"Frank Drackman" wrote:

"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book

/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.


procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry...

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad

Actually, thanks to killfiles, I didn't see it at all.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On Sep 29, 10:44 pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
"Frank Drackman" wrote:

"jim beam" wrote in message
et...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book

/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry...

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad

Actually, thanks to killfiles, I didn't see it at all.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Which killfile do you use And is it applicable to Google groups?

Been here before...some authors beg for killfile.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:46:48 -0700, jim beam wrote:

Frank Drackman wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol
At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book
/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".

I guess that we all saw that coming...sad


what's sad? having to correct gross error? or being gullible so that
having smoke blown up your skirt seems like it's a good thing?

This is NOT torquing a bolt until it starts to strip and then backing off a
little. Stop pretending it is. The phrase "as high as the rim can bear" does NOT
equal "higher than the rim can bear." Using the specified tension from the
manufacturer is a convenient, well documented determination of how high a
tension the rim can bear. Not a bad thing. Not necessarily in conflict with the
other.

If you want to keep beating this horse please continue in private, there's
nothing but bones and maggots left and it smells bad. Stop.

On Sep 29, 10:04 am, M-gineering wrote:

Shimano 2010 catalogue aka The Data book

:-) Well said!

- Frank Krygowski

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:46:48 -0700, jim beam wrote:

Frank Drackman wrote:
"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article .com,
BigJulie wrote:

sutherland's

http://www.amazon.com/Sutherlands-Ha...herland/dp/091
4578065/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4791940-4852967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191039436&sr=8-2


On Sep 29, 12:05 am, Mark wrote:
Well as I am increasingly intrigued by the mechanics of bikes. There
is a lot I just have never taken apart, put back together, and frankly
don't fully understand how things work. I wondered if there is a book
that is accepted as "the book to have on bike maintenance" that shows
pictures and step by step instructions much the way the Chiltons book
does for auto repair.

I'd also be interested in books on bike design. Now I would like to
keep the theory to a practical level. No I have no idea to turn this
into an engineering project. I am already married to an engineer and
the last thing one needs is two engineers in the same house. lol
At a much lower price, Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance (and
the similar Road Bike Maintenance) are good Chilton-level books. I'd just
get the one for your primary kind of ride, as much of the material
overlaps, and the differences aren't liable to catch you out unless
you're a roadie and you decide to start doing your own fork maintenance
on your MTB.

Sheldonbrown.com seems like it has directions on virtually every
mechanical repair known to cycling, so it's almost as good as having your
own bike manual.

I make no submission on most bike design books, but regular contributor
here Jobst Brandt literally wrote the book
/a/ book.

on bicycle wheels, called "The Bicycle Wheel," and it covers both the
theory of wheels and the proper procedure for wheelbuilding.

procedure, yes. theory? some of it is badly awry. spoke tension "as
high as the rim can bear" for example is based on a fundamental
misunderstanding by the author and that is of the most practical [and
costly] consequence to the novice builder - excess tension can cause a
higher propensity for rim buckling and directly cause rim cracking. the
book should should be amended to specify spoke tension "as determined by
the rim manufacturer".
I guess that we all saw that coming...sad


what's sad? having to correct gross error? or being gullible so that
having smoke blown up your skirt seems like it's a good thing?

This is NOT torquing a bolt until it starts to strip and then backing off a
little. Stop pretending it is. The phrase "as high as the rim can bear" does NOT
equal "higher than the rim can bear."

you don't understand the problem. because the rim doesn't pretzel
doesn't mean it's not at its strength limit. pretzel means yield. but
fatigue loading for aluminum is typically 1/3 yield. if spoke tension
is close to the limit of gross yield, it surely shouldn't be too hard to
understand that point loading is also beyond that necessary to ensure a
decent fatigue life - particularly in highly anisotropic materials like
rim extrusions where strength is much lower perpendicular to the
extrusion axis.

Using the specified tension from the
manufacturer is a convenient, well documented determination of how high a
tension the rim can bear. Not a bad thing. Not necessarily in conflict with the
other.

If you want to keep beating this horse please continue in private, there's
nothing but bones and maggots left and it smells bad. Stop.

ignorance is no excuse. i want the facts corrected so that people stop
wasting their money by prematurely destroying their rims with excess
spoke tension. what do /you/ want? other than to not be confronted
with uncomfortable reality that's you've been misled of course.