Lightning Cycle Dynamics P-38

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Dec 3, 9:42 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Get a proper recumbent with a laid back seat and you will do even "finer".
By the way, I have a world of experience (30 years) with both uprights and
recumbents. Even Tom Sherman likes a laid back seat.
[...]

So then, the P-38 is not proper recumbent ... IN YOUR OPINION (you
again neglected to qualify)? I have 50+ years of experience riding
uprights and 10+ years of experience riding recumbents but just how
much experience do you have riding a P-38 since that is the recumbent
you are disrespectfully expounding about? I too like a laid back
seating position and, using a clock as a point of reference, I would
estimate my seat angle to be right at or about 35 degrees, so the
position of my seat it is not all that upright.

I rode a P-38 once for about 5 minutes and couldn't wait to get off of it.
The contraption is actually a torture machine.
[...]

There is nothing to recommend the P-38 beyond speed.

OK, I will ask again ... Is it possible for you to ever state an
opinion (read assertion) as an opinion and a bit less emphatically?
There is nothing to recommend your opinion until you provide a
reasonable, acceptable explanation. Tom Sherman who you have often
cited as a recumbent guru had some very positive things to say about
the P-38. If I were to buy another recumbent, I'd give the titanium
Rotator Tiger and titanium Bacchetta Aero a serious look.

Tom Sherman wouldn't be caught dead on a P-38. I would advise you never to
even think about getting another recumbent since you haven't a clue as to
what they are good for. Titanium indeed!

It is uncomfortable because of the upright seat position. Most sensible
folks get recumbents for comfort, not for speed.

You meant in your opinion of course. Since I have my seat adjusted to
approximately 35 degrees of tilt, with some additional latitude
remaining to provide an even more laid back position, I am left to
assume that your your persistent babbling about the P-38 being
uncomfortable due to its upright seating position is just so much
irrelevant, indefensible, disinformation, so feel free to stop
babbling about something you know little about in order to spare
yourself further embarrassment.

I was not aware that the seat lay back could be adjusted. The one I rode had
me all crunched up so that my legs seemed to be coming into my gut as I
pedaled. If I wanted a racing position, I would get an upright, not a
recumbent.
[...]

You wouldn't last more than a few days on a week long cross state tour on
your upright. You might last on your P-38 but you would last even better
on
my Vision.

Says who ... know nothing Dolan? When are you going to begin
qualifying your unsubstantiated errant opinions. Even three simple
letters will suffice ...IMO. You can leave out the "H" since you are
anything but HUMBLE. Understand that something is not a FACT just
because you say so. I will grant you that a long distance ride is
more comfortable on a recumbent, but I can also tell you that I rode
465 miles in four days in single digit wind chills on my upright, so I
think I would be up to the challenge of a week long cross state tour
on my bike of choosing. You know nothing of my riding capabilities,
just like you know little about the P-38.

I know all about upright cyclists who do week long bike tours. They suffer
horribly. Their back sides hurt them so bad they can hardly walk at the end
of the day. Furthermore, who cares how many miles you go or how fast. I only
care about being on the bike for as long as possible - usually 8 to 10 hours
a day. I let the miles and the speed take care of themselves.

If you insist upon speaking ex cathedra, then why not become a pope!

God Damn It ... I am far Greater than the Pope. I am a Great Saint and the
Pope is merely the Pope.

Oh you are of a higher order ... that order being the order of
obnoxious, opinionated, jerks. Your posts satnd in testimony. Most
have a familiar underlying self-serving egotistical suspect message
reminiscent of ... I'm the government and I'm here to help you. The
fact, is this forum and for that matter this planet will be a better
place with your passage. You'll not be missed nor mourned.

Do not ever wish the passage of others. All that does is call up the Grim
Reaper - for you!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Dec 4, 3:11*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Dec 3, 9:42 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Get a proper recumbent with a laid back seat and you will do even "finer".
By the way, I have a world of experience (30 years) with both uprights and
recumbents. Even Tom Sherman likes a laid back seat.
[...]
So then, the P-38 is not proper recumbent ... IN YOUR OPINION (you

again neglected to qualify)? *I have 50+ years of experience riding
uprights and 10+ years of experience riding recumbents but just how
much experience do you have riding a P-38 since that is the recumbent
you are disrespectfully expounding about? *I too like a laid back
seating position and, using a clock as a point of reference, I would
estimate my seat angle to be right at or about 35 degrees, so the
position of my seat it is not all that upright.

I rode a P-38 once for about 5 minutes and couldn't wait to get off of it..
The contraption is actually a torture machine.
[...]

O N L Y I N Y O U R O P I N I O N ... you keep forgetting
that ... I know dementia!!! And you contend that 5 minutes is an
sufficient in which to evaluate any kind of bicycle?

There is nothing to recommend the P-38 beyond speed.
OK, I will ask again ... Is it possible for you to ever state an

opinion (read assertion) as an *opinion and a bit less emphatically?
There is nothing to recommend your opinion until you provide a
reasonable, acceptable explanation. *Tom Sherman who you have often
cited as a recumbent guru had some very positive things to say about
the P-38. *If I were to buy another recumbent, I'd give the titanium
Rotator Tiger and titanium Bacchetta Aero a serious look.

Tom Sherman wouldn't be caught dead on a P-38. I would advise you never to
even think about getting another recumbent since you haven't a clue as to
what they are good for. Titanium indeed!

I didn't know that Tom hired you as his mouthpiece. Tom likes
lowracers ... his preference. I've never ridden one, but suspect that
I too would like them. Thanks for the advice that was not requested,
required or wanted. You haven't a clue about almost anything. You
suffer from clue deficiency disorder. I know what for me a recumbent
is good for and know what kind of recumbent suits my particular needs
and that decision a prerogative for each of us to make and not your to
make for us. Among yor many twisted proclivities, you are also a
control freak. You are a cornucopia of mental disorders.

It is uncomfortable because of the upright seat position. Most sensible
folks get recumbents for comfort, not for speed.
You meant in your opinion of course. *Since I have my seat adjusted to

approximately 35 degrees of tilt, with some additional latitude
remaining to provide an even more laid back position, I am left to
assume that your your persistent babbling about the P-38 being
uncomfortable due to its upright seating position is just so much
irrelevant, indefensible, disinformation, so feel free to stop
babbling about something you know little about in order to spare
yourself further embarrassment.

I was not aware that the seat lay back could be adjusted. The one I rode had
me all crunched up so that my legs seemed to be coming into my gut as I
pedaled. If I wanted a racing position, I would get an upright, not a
recumbent.
[...]

A gut is not a good thing to have when riding a recumbent compared to
an upright. You apparently rode an earlier vintage before a change of
design allowed for adjustment of seat angle. If you were not aware of
that feature, which is years old, then perhaps you should have made a
point to become aware before running your mouth. In the future a bit
of familiarity with the subject matter would be advisable before
spewing erroneous opinions as though they were facts ... just a
thought. That has to be about as close to admission of being wrong
and posting a retraction that I have ever heard from you. That
didn't; hurt now did it? Congratulations, you are making progress.

You wouldn't last more than a few days on a week long cross state tour on
your upright. You might last on your P-38 but you would last even better
on
my Vision.
Says who ... know nothing Dolan? *When are you going to begin

qualifying your unsubstantiated errant opinions. *Even three simple
letters will suffice ...IMO. *You can leave out the "H" since you are
anything but HUMBLE. *Understand that something is not a FACT just
because you say so. *I will grant you that a long distance ride is
more comfortable on a recumbent, but I can also tell you that I rode
465 miles in four days in single digit wind chills on my upright, so I
think I would be up to the challenge of a week long cross state tour
on my bike of choosing. *You know nothing of my riding capabilities,
just like you know little about the P-38.

I know all about upright cyclists who do week long bike tours. They suffer
horribly. Their back sides hurt them so bad they can hardly walk at the end
of the day.

Those are obviously examples of person who did not sufficiently train
for the event. Many cyclist make that mistake. Those who make that
mistake on a recumbent will likely suffer less than those who make
that mistake on an upright, but in order to minimize suffering or
eliminate such suggering require proper preparation (time and miles)
regardless of that platform ridden.

Furthermore, who cares how many miles you go or how fast. I only
care about being on the bike for as long as possible - usually 8 to 10 hours
a day. I let the miles and the speed take care of themselves.

On it or riding it? If you are on a bike 8-10 hours, I am willing to
bet that you are just puttering along and cover little distance in
relation to the hours spent. Whereas there is nothing wrong with that
and this is not a criticism, you should realize that there is nothing
wrong with riding far or riding fast either and you should afford the
same courtesy and refrain from being critical others for riding as
they choose ... to each his own, so to speak. Is that so difficult to
comprehend?

If you insist upon speaking ex cathedra, then why not become a pope!

God Damn It ... I am far Greater than the Pope. I am a Great Saint and the
Pope is merely the Pope.
Oh you are of a higher order ... that order being the order of

obnoxious, opinionated, jerks. *Your posts stand in testimony. *Most
have a familiar underlying self-serving egotistical suspect message
reminiscent of ... I'm the government and I'm here to help you. *The
fact, is this forum and for that matter this planet will be a better
place with your passage. *You'll not be missed nor mourned.

Do not ever wish the passage of others. All that does is call up the Grim
Reaper - for you!

Another unqualified opinion, I presume??

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"JimmyMac" aka Jim McNamara wrote:
[...] I too like a laid back
seating position and, using a clock as a point of reference, I would
estimate my seat angle to be right at or about 35 degrees, so the
position of my seat it is not all that upright.[...]

35° from the vertical? Recline of recumbent seats is by convention
measured from the horizontal, and I would not think that a P-38 seat
would recline that far.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Tom Sherman wouldn't be caught dead on a P-38.[...]

Ed is right. I was alive the last time I rode a P-38 (on a metric century).

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Dec 4, 6:19*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
"JimmyMac" aka Jim McNamara wrote:

[...] *I too like a laid back
seating position and, using a clock as a point of reference, I would
estimate my seat angle to be right at or about 35 degrees, so the
position of my seat it is not all that upright.[...]

35° from the vertical? Recline of recumbent seats is by convention
measured from the horizontal, and I would not think that a P-38 seat
would recline that far.

I wasn't aware that, by convention, seat angle was measured from the
horizontal (the seat or the seat back????). Yes, I measured from the
vertical. Allow me to try to clarify. Looking at a clock, the seat
(meaning seat back) is tilted at an angle approximate to where the
second hand would be between 1 and 2 o'clock, but closer to the number
one than the number 2. Does that description help Tom?

Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Dec 4, 6:22*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Tom Sherman wouldn't be caught dead on a P-38.[...]

Ed is right. I was alive the last time I rode a P-38 (on a metric century).

Well, that'll meet with his Dolan's approval since he hates to be
proven wrong. As is often the case, however, Ed will likely not
appreciate your sense of humor, although I do.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

"JimmyMac" wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 3:11 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
Furthermore, who cares how many miles you go or how fast. I only
care about being on the bike for as long as possible - usually 8 to 10
hours
a day. I let the miles and the speed take care of themselves.

On it or riding it? If you are on a bike 8-10 hours, I am willing to
bet that you are just puttering along and cover little distance in
relation to the hours spent. Whereas there is nothing wrong with that
and this is not a criticism, you should realize that there is nothing
wrong with riding far or riding fast either and you should afford the
same courtesy and refrain from being critical others for riding as
they choose ... to each his own, so to speak. Is that so difficult to
comprehend?

All week long group bike tours are set up so they can be accomplished by
anyone riding at about 10 mph or so. That is my accustomed speed which is
easy to do on a recumbent without any discomfort at all. Most upright
cyclists like to go as fast as they can in order to get the ride over with
as soon as possible. Many can easily average 20 mph. I regard this kind of
hard riding as completely insane. The only reason to go that fast is to
minimize the suffering. But it doesn't do any good. They still hurt at the
end of the day.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

JimmyMac aka Jim McNamara wrote:
On Dec 4, 6:19 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
"JimmyMac" aka Jim McNamara wrote:

[...] I too like a laid back
seating position and, using a clock as a point of reference, I would
estimate my seat angle to be right at or about 35 degrees, so the
position of my seat it is not all that upright.[...]
35° from the vertical? Recline of recumbent seats is by convention
measured from the horizontal, and I would not think that a P-38 seat
would recline that far.

I wasn't aware that, by convention, seat angle was measured from the
horizontal (the seat or the seat back????). Yes, I measured from the
vertical. Allow me to try to clarify. Looking at a clock, the seat
(meaning seat back) is tilted at an angle approximate to where the
second hand would be between 1 and 2 o'clock, but closer to the number
one than the number 2. Does that description help Tom?

Well, every published article and manufacturer specification I can
recall measures seat back recline referenced to horizontal. So by
convention, Jim's P-38 has a seat recline of 55°, which is quite upright
by lowracer/highracer standards, but much more reclined than a typical
CLWB (e.g. BikeE) or the well known Easy Racers Tour Easy/GRR LWB.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Dec 5, 4:06*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"JimmyMac" wrote in message

...
On Dec 4, 3:11 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]

Furthermore, who cares how many miles you go or how fast. I only
care about being on the bike for as long as possible - usually 8 to 10
hours
a day. I let the miles and the speed take care of themselves.

On it or riding it? *If you are on a bike 8-10 hours, I am willing to
bet that you are just puttering along and cover little distance in
relation to the hours spent. *Whereas there is nothing wrong with that
and this is not a criticism, you should realize that there is nothing
wrong with riding far or riding fast either and you should afford the
same courtesy and refrain from being critical others for riding as
they choose ... to each his own, so to speak. *Is that so difficult to
comprehend?

All week long group bike tours are set up so they can be accomplished by
anyone riding at about 10 mph or so. That is my accustomed speed which is
easy to do on a recumbent without any discomfort at all.

So the answer is on it then. Most peopl wal about 3 mph and speed
walker attain speeds of 5+mph. 10 mph woudl be for me a bike boring
pace aking to a bike balancing act. for the less skilled.

Most upright
cyclists like to go as fast as they can in order to get the ride over with
as soon as possible.

In your opinion you meant to say. Stating opinion as fact appears to
be an incurable bad habit of yours. I ride fast some days and smell
the roses on other regardless of whether I am on the recumbent or the
upright.

Many can easily average 20 mph.

They can? Try it sometime. I am willing to bet you can't do that for
5 miles.

I regard this kind of hard riding as completely insane.

Congratulations ... you finally qualified an opinion . There is hope
for you after all.

The only reason to go that fast is to
minimize the suffering. But it doesn't do any good. They still hurt at the
end of the day.

I take is all back since you immediately reverted back to your usual
style ... the Dolan de facto maifesto. Readers, this should not come
as a revelation ... a purveyor of disinformation, Dolan fancies
himself to be a polymathic profundity (just look it up Conan the
Librarian), then again Ed is known to place far more stock in his
unqaulified, wayward opinions than do others.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On Dec 5, 10:23*pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
JimmyMac aka Jim McNamara wrote:

On Dec 4, 6:19 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
"JimmyMac" aka Jim McNamara wrote:

[...] *I too like a laid back
seating position and, using a clock as a point of reference, I would
estimate my seat angle to be right at or about 35 degrees, so the
position of my seat it is not all that upright.[...]
35° from the vertical? Recline of recumbent seats is by convention
measured from the horizontal, and I would not think that a P-38 seat
would recline that far.

I wasn't aware that, by convention, seat angle was measured from the
horizontal (the seat or the seat back????). *Yes, I measured from the
vertical. *Allow me to try to clarify. *Looking at a clock, the seat
(meaning seat back) is tilted at an angle approximate to where the
second hand would be between 1 and 2 o'clock, but closer to the number
one than the number 2. *Does that description help Tom?

Well, every published article and manufacturer specification I can
recall measures seat back recline referenced to horizontal. So by
convention, Jim's P-38 has a seat recline of 55°, which is quite upright
by lowracer/highracer standards, but much more reclined than a typical
CLWB (e.g. BikeE) or the well known Easy Racers Tour Easy/GRR LWB.

OK, then as conventionally measured, 55 degrees is about right I'd
say. Ligntning indicates on their website that seat angle has
adjustable range of 50-65 degrees but with electrical ties keeping the
seat taught so that it doesn't contact the tire, 45 (maybe even 40)
might just be possible. Regardless, my seat angle is upright in
comparison to lowracer/highracer standards and comfortable enough, but
still noticeably challenging into a stiff headwind.

Jim

Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll