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500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for$24.99 at Costco



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 24th 13, 07:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for$24.99 at Costco

http://www.feit.com/conserv_energy/flahlights/led_flashlights/72322

Saw these yesterday at Costco. A very good deal and an ideal bicycle
light. Very long run time since it's using C cells rather than AA cells,
and has two brightness levels as well as strobe mode, and the beam zooms
from spot to flood.

Today is the last day that they are on sale, the regular price is $29.99
for two.

Better than ordering from DealExtreme and if you don't like them, well
it's Costco, they have a good return policy.
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  #2  
Old February 24th 13, 07:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for$24.99 at Costco

On Sunday, February 24, 2013 1:36:45 PM UTC-5, SMS wrote:
http://www.feit.com/conserv_energy/flahlights/led_flashlights/72322



Saw these yesterday at Costco. A very good deal and an ideal bicycle

light. Very long run time since it's using C cells rather than AA cells,

and has two brightness levels as well as strobe mode, and the beam zooms

from spot to flood.



Today is the last day that they are on sale, the regular price is $29.99

for two.



Better than ordering from DealExtreme and if you don't like them, well

it's Costco, they have a good return policy.


What's the area of the road these actually light up? How big is the lens?
  #3  
Old February 24th 13, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2for $24.99 at Costco

On 2/24/2013 10:59 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, February 24, 2013 1:36:45 PM UTC-5, SMS wrote:
http://www.feit.com/conserv_energy/flahlights/led_flashlights/72322



Saw these yesterday at Costco. A very good deal and an ideal bicycle

light. Very long run time since it's using C cells rather than AA cells,

and has two brightness levels as well as strobe mode, and the beam zooms

from spot to flood.



Today is the last day that they are on sale, the regular price is $29.99

for two.



Better than ordering from DealExtreme and if you don't like them, well

it's Costco, they have a good return policy.


What's the area of the road these actually light up? How big is the lens?


The range claims to be 300 meters at what looks like about a 20 degree
beam angle. Based on my calculations it's about an area of 8000 square
meters. Of course the actual useful area where the illumination is of
sufficient intensity is far less than that. At a wider beam angle the
total area should be the same but the distance will be less.

Really there's no way to know the area any light illuminates without
trying it, and even then it varies by the riders night vision and their
own ideas of what is sufficient.

I think that it would be comparable to something like the NiteRider
Lumina 500. Of course with the NiteRider you get four levels of steady
beam not just two, it includes a rechargeable Li-Ion battery and
charger, as well as a handlebar mount, and it sells for $86
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008PENWMG which isn't a bad deal. By the
time you buy three C cell NiMH batteries, a charger, and buy or build an
acceptable mount, you're up to about $70 (assuming you don't already
have a charger) for the Feit flashlight.



  #4  
Old February 25th 13, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan O
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Posts: 6,098
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for$24.99 at Costco

On Feb 24, 2:51 pm, SMS wrote:

snip


I think that it would be comparable to something like the NiteRider
Lumina 500. Of course with the NiteRider you get four levels of steady
beam not just two, it includes a rechargeable Li-Ion battery and
charger, as well as a handlebar mount, and it sells for $86
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008PENWMG which isn't a bad deal. By the
time you buy three C cell NiMH batteries, a charger, and buy or build an
acceptable mount, you're up to about $70 (assuming you don't already
have a charger) for the Feit flashlight.


Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.
  #5  
Old February 25th 13, 07:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2for $24.99 at Costco

On 2/24/2013 3:11 PM, Dan O wrote:

snip

Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.


I'm not too fond of Li-Ion batteries for bicycle lights, even though
they are all that make sense for stuff like laptops and cameras. I'd
rather have NiMH batteries where I can have back-up (of course you could
also buy a spare custom Li-Ion battery pack).

The problem with most bicycle lights is their beam pattern, which is
invariably a fixed pattern that is a compromise between spot and flood
(some older commercial systems used two MR lamps, one spot and one
flood, but I don't see these anymore). A light with adjustable optics
has definite advantages for a bicycle light.

I also am very unfond of most commercial bicycle lights' mounting
system. Usually that have no adjustment to compensate for non-straight
handlebars, plus they often use funky plastic mounts, rubber shims, and
flimsy clamps. Usually it's the worst of both worlds, too fragile to
want to remove the lights to avoid theft, but too easy for someone to
steal if you leave it on the bike.



  #6  
Old February 25th 13, 08:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for $24.99 at Costco

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:11:24 -0800 (PST), Dan O
wrote:

Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.


Nope. It has worse problems. You shouldn't leave a Li-Ion battery
either fully charged or totally depleted. You also should not let it
get too hot. Light reading:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #7  
Old February 25th 13, 04:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for$24.99 at Costco

On Feb 25, 1:24*am, SMS wrote:
On 2/24/2013 3:11 PM, Dan O wrote:

snip

Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: *Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.


I'm not too fond of Li-Ion batteries for bicycle lights, even though
they are all that make sense for stuff like laptops and cameras. I'd
rather have NiMH batteries where I can have back-up (of course you could
also buy a spare custom Li-Ion battery pack).

The problem with most bicycle lights is their beam pattern, which is
invariably a fixed pattern that is a compromise between spot and flood
(some older commercial systems used two MR lamps, one spot and one
flood, but I don't see these anymore). A light with adjustable optics
has definite advantages for a bicycle light.

I also am very unfond of most commercial bicycle lights' mounting
system. Usually that have no adjustment to compensate for non-straight
handlebars, plus they often use funky plastic mounts, rubber shims, and
flimsy clamps. Usually it's the worst of both worlds, too fragile to
want to remove the lights to avoid theft, but too easy for someone to
steal if you leave it on the bike.


Try a real bicycle headlamp, a modern one that meets German
specifications. Mount it properly above the front wheel, bolting it
to the bike. Until you've done this, you can't know what a really
good bike headlight is.

But here's one major clue: It's nothing like a flashlight. I know,
because I've tried both.

- Frank Krygowski
  #8  
Old February 25th 13, 06:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2for $24.99 at Costco

On 2/24/2013 11:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:11:24 -0800 (PST), Dan O
wrote:

Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.


Nope. It has worse problems. You shouldn't leave a Li-Ion battery
either fully charged or totally depleted. You also should not let it
get too hot. Light reading:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm


Well this is how Toyota feels about the NiMH batteries in their hybrid
vehicles. One reason they can offer a 10 year battery warranty is partly
because they don't discharge the NiMH batteries very low or charge them
very high. On older Priuses sold outside the U.S. there was a button to
press to discharge the batteries further down, but they left that off of
the U.S. models (some owners hacked it in).

The other reason they can offer a 10 year warranty on the hybrid battery
is because _they_ decide when the battery is worn out. A battery that no
longer takes as much of a charge as when the vehicle was new is not a
battery that is replaced under warranty.

  #9  
Old February 25th 13, 07:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2 for $24.99 at Costco

On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:25:43 -0800, SMS
wrote:

On 2/24/2013 11:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:11:24 -0800 (PST), Dan O
wrote:

Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.


Nope. It has worse problems. You shouldn't leave a Li-Ion battery
either fully charged or totally depleted. You also should not let it
get too hot. Light reading:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm


Well this is how Toyota feels about the NiMH batteries in their hybrid
vehicles. One reason they can offer a 10 year battery warranty is partly
because they don't discharge the NiMH batteries very low or charge them
very high.


NiMH and Li-Ion chemistries are very different. Li-Ion batteries do
not like to sit idle at full charge. This is why you don't see Li-Ion
batteries in UPS power systems. The batteries would self destruct
rather soon. Making Li-Ion work in a vehicle (as in the Tesla)
requires quite a bit of engineering, computer power, and cooling,
usually not found in the average bicycle light. You can also replace
batteries rather easily in a bicycle light, while it's not so easy in
a Toyota. Methinks the comparison is somewhat of a stretch.

In order to make a Li-Ion battery work in a bicycle lamp, there are a
few compromises that need to be made. The big one is to not charge
the battery to full capacity. Another is to keep it from getting too
hot or cold, and to prevent it from discharging below about 20%
capacity. Most of this is controlled by the internal electronics. If
the battery doesn't hit the extremes, it could last nearly forever. It
gets stressed, it will fail rather soon. In the battle to produce the
bicycle light with the most output (lumens), and the longest operating
time, such minor consideration such as the life of the battery is
often ignored. An easy way to tell is to connect a voltmeter to the
LIPO battery terminals. If a fully charged battery reads 4.2VDC, it's
at 100% of capacity and will have a short but brilliant life time. If
it's less, the battery will last longer. See Table 4 and 5 at:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
This also works with cell phones.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #10  
Old February 25th 13, 07:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default 500 Lumen, 3C, Adjustable Beam, 3 Mode Cree LED Flashlight 2for $24.99 at Costco

On 2/25/2013 10:06 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:25:43 -0800, SMS
wrote:

On 2/24/2013 11:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 15:11:24 -0800 (PST), Dan O
wrote:

Looks like a good deal, but the first poissible drawback that comes to
mind: Isn't Li-Ion sensitive to memory effect if not fully cycled?
And I do not like (anywhere near) fully discharging a headlight out on
the road.

Nope. It has worse problems. You shouldn't leave a Li-Ion battery
either fully charged or totally depleted. You also should not let it
get too hot. Light reading:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm


Well this is how Toyota feels about the NiMH batteries in their hybrid
vehicles. One reason they can offer a 10 year battery warranty is partly
because they don't discharge the NiMH batteries very low or charge them
very high.


NiMH and Li-Ion chemistries are very different. Li-Ion batteries do
not like to sit idle at full charge. This is why you don't see Li-Ion
batteries in UPS power systems. The batteries would self destruct
rather soon. Making Li-Ion work in a vehicle (as in the Tesla)
requires quite a bit of engineering, computer power, and cooling,
usually not found in the average bicycle light. You can also replace
batteries rather easily in a bicycle light, while it's not so easy in
a Toyota. Methinks the comparison is somewhat of a stretch.

In order to make a Li-Ion battery work in a bicycle lamp, there are a
few compromises that need to be made. The big one is to not charge
the battery to full capacity. Another is to keep it from getting too
hot or cold, and to prevent it from discharging below about 20%
capacity. Most of this is controlled by the internal electronics. If
the battery doesn't hit the extremes, it could last nearly forever. It
gets stressed, it will fail rather soon. In the battle to produce the
bicycle light with the most output (lumens), and the longest operating
time, such minor consideration such as the life of the battery is
often ignored. An easy way to tell is to connect a voltmeter to the
LIPO battery terminals. If a fully charged battery reads 4.2VDC, it's
at 100% of capacity and will have a short but brilliant life time. If
it's less, the battery will last longer. See Table 4 and 5 at:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
This also works with cell phones.


Well then I guess a bicycle light using standard cells, either Zn / Mn O
2 or NiMH is a better choice. I'm glad I've been doing this all along.
Of course sealed lead-acid also works.

It's interesting that the more costly lighting systems are all moving to
Li-Ion, but I suspect that it has more to do with size, weight, and
duration, than battery life, since they aren't using sophisticated
charging systems (to the best of my knowledge). They need a better
charging system for Li-Ion, such as what Boeing used on the 787--or not.

It's rather ironic that if you go to a bicycle shop and buy an expensive
lighting system that you're likely to end up with a significantly poorer
result than choosing something like the device mentioned in the subject
above.

One problem is that most cyclists have never even tried the better
lighting options. The good commercial systems are very expensive, and
the alternative options are not understood. They automatically assume
that the bicycle light manufacturers have their best interests in mind,
and they have absolutely no idea what a good bicycle light actually is.

I think what we need is a standards body like an industry association
(not necessarily a government body) to set some reasonable minimum
standards for bicycle lights, just as there are government standards for
vehicle lights. Germany has bicycle light standards but they're
ridiculously low, 10 lux and 30% dynamo efficiency. That's why most
dynamo powered lights, an incandescent lamp powered by a tire driven
dynamo, are so poor. They should be requiring much higher levels of
illumination but this would raise costs for bicycle manufacturers.






 




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