hard tail or full susser

This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one will
shift their opinion .

What do you think ?...

Jim

"Jimmy Hitler" wrote in message
...
This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full
susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the
downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the
fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one
will
shift their opinion .

What do you think ?...

Jim

Why bother having full suspension if its going to be locked out. Its there,
so use it. If you want the feel of a HT on a FS bike, then just get a HT and
save yourself the hassle.

- CA-G

Can-Am Girls Kick Ass!

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:53:33 +0000 (UTC), "Jimmy Hitler"
wrote:

This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one will
shift their opinion .

You need a full suspension bike for sure.

Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC
race:

http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/5spot/wayslack.jpg

"P e t e F a g e r l i n" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:53:33 +0000 (UTC), "Jimmy Hitler"
wrote:

This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full
susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the
downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the
fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one
will
shift their opinion .

You need a full suspension bike for sure.

Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC
race:

http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/5spot/wayslack.jpg


Yeah, that's the ticket! ;^)

Mike - I wouldn't ride that thing DH!

"Jimmy Hitler" wrote in message
...
This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full
susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the
downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the
fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one
will
shift their opinion .

What do you think ?...

Jim


You need to look into stable platform rear shocks like the Progressive 5th
element. It does a great job resisting pedaling input but stays fully
active for all the bumps. Their Air shock is one of the lightest out there
too. Lock out shocks are a PITA.

Mike

"Jimmy Hitler" wrote:

This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one will
shift their opinion .

What do you think ?...

The more skilled the rider, the less the FS advantage matters (and the
FS disadvantage still counts as much). On most XC courses, a HT is
the fast way 'round, at least for those who know how to ride well. If
OTOH, just pointing the bike in the general direction is about as
technical as you wanna get, a FS might make you faster.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote:

You need a full suspension bike for sure.

Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC
race:

http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/5spot/wayslack.jpg

Heh. I actually saw a guy try to ride something similar to that in a
tight, twisty singletrack time trial with as much up as down.

He didn't do very well.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

"Jimmy Hitler" wrote in message
...
This has probably been discussed before but I would be grateful your
opinion ...
it might save a big fall out .
Me mate tried cross country racing last year with a specialized full
susser
and did quite well but felt he lost a lot on the hills and as the
downhill's
where not that bad a light hard tail was the order of the day and the
fact
the 99 % of the riders where using them ...he's now the proud owner of a
specialized m5 with lots of exspensive and light goodies attached to it .
Our other mate is adamant that a full susser with lockout would be a far
better option as you have the best of both worlds and the fact that the
world championship was won on a full susser says he is right .. No one
will
shift their opinion .

What do you think ?...

Jim

It depends a lot on the course and rider skills. I just picked up a full
susser this past summer (after cracking my hardtail). Its a blur, so its a
little bit heavy and a little more trailbikish than a full on race bike.
Either way, on most of my local trails I feel much faster, and my times did
improve. Then again, my trails are really rocky, rooty, and technical. It
certainly helps that the bike carves corners much better too.

On some of the courses I raced this past year, the full suspension was
definitely an advantage. When a half mile stretch of the loop is shared
with the DH course, you know its got rough sections! I was able to pass
people that were fitter than me through a combination of technical skills
(honed from riding the hardtail with 65mm front travel in some nasty tight
stuff) and the extra bit of leeway I had with the suspension. The BIGGEST
difference is when you're riding over a long rough section at speed. I find
it much easier to pedal the fully, and therefore I keep my speed and
momentum a lot easier. I can pedal just fine on the hardtail too, but
having my legs serve the dual purpose of propulsion and all of my "rear
suspension" on the hardtail made it very tiring to do. On the fully I can
focus more on pedalling and keeping the fast line, without having to worry
about absorbing in the middle of a pedal stroke.

However, this is rough trails we're talking about here. If there are a
bunch of long, non-technical climbs or smooth singletrack, then I'd much
prefer a race-tuned hardtail over a fully. There's nothing like the instant
response and stiffness of a hardtail for smooth stuff, or even easy rough
stuff. And as long as you've got the technical skills, the tech parts of
the course can be done almost as fast as a full suspension bike, although
it'll be a small bit more tiring.

Don't bother with lockout. Put a 5th element or a swinger SPV or some other
stable platform technology on your bike if you can, or get a bike like the
blur that helps minimize bob (it still bobs, don't get me wrong, but nowhere
near as much as most of the other designs I tried).

So, to sum all that blabbering up:

Fully for technical courses
Hardtail for fast, smooth courses.

Jon Bond

P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote in message . ..
-8- snip -8-
You need a full suspension bike for sure.

Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC
race:

http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/5spot/wayslack.jpg

My irony-o-meter is going crazy, and I think it has something to do
with this quote:
"I merely wrote that I don''t get the fascination that people have
with posting mundane pictures of mundane bikes leaning against the
couch"

I wonder who could have said that?

Donning asbestos suit...

Adam.

"Adam" wrote in message
om...
P e t e F a g e r l i n wrote in message
. ..
-8- snip -8-
You need a full suspension bike for sure.

Something like this would be the perfect steed for winning many an XC
race:

http://home.pacbell.net/psf0/5spot/wayslack.jpg

My irony-o-meter is going crazy, and I think it has something to do
with this quote:
"I merely wrote that I don''t get the fascination that people have
with posting mundane pictures of mundane bikes leaning against the
couch"

I wonder who could have said that?

Donning asbestos suit...

Adam.

I see you've graduated from the Alanis Morissette school of Irony.

Mike - and your 'sarcasm-o-meter' is broken.