Eschew Coolness in Favor of Intelligence. Use a High Power DaytimeFront Flashing Light.

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:45:36 AM UTC-7, T0m $herman wrote:
On 9/22/2013 11:03 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:45:24 PM UTC-7, T0m $herman wrote:

On 9/21/2013 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip



Alternating on-off (one side on while the other is off) high beams on



cars are quite attention getting. Of course (around here at least),



they are only legal on emergency vehicles.



Unfortunately, Oregon's UVC specifically prohibits sirens on bikes. Whistles are prohibited, too, but that doesn't stop everybody -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4q4AIhMyL0



You could always go back to your old job if you want to play with lights

and sirens.

I took great pride in being able to play the first seven notes of the Star Spangled Banner on a Federal PA 1000 electronic siren. Put it between "yelp" and "hi-lo" and push the manual button just right. The old Director sirens were far less musical, although you could get a "welp" -- between "wail" and "yelp." Mechanical sirens had that satisfying analog sound, but it was hard to play a tune.

BTW, lights and sirens were no guaranty of being seen. My co-horts in the Valley would get t-boned on a fairly regular basis. Same goes with flashing lights on bikes -- I can make eye contact with drivers and still have them pull out in front of me. I could have a search light and calliope, and they would still pull out. I think a giant RF/Bluetooth generator would be good -- scramble all the electronics and cell phone reception. Send out a signal . . . "bicycle approaching, bicycle approaching."

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 07:11:31 UTC+1, JoeRiel wrote:
If you are going to use a daytime flasher, you'll almost certainly want

to aim the light so that the centerline of the beam is horizontal to the

road. That means it will have to be re-aimed when riding in the dark.

I've yet to see a daytime flasher that, on a sunny day, is anywhere near

as visible as the cyclist alone.



--

Joe Riel

Chrome plated rims work.

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 17:03:30 UTC+1, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:45:24 PM UTC-7, T0m $herman wrote:

On 9/21/2013 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip



Alternating on-off (one side on while the other is off) high beams on



cars are quite attention getting. Of course (around here at least),



they are only legal on emergency vehicles.



Unfortunately, Oregon's UVC specifically prohibits sirens on bikes.

Carry it in a backpack or even in a loose pack in a basket. Should the cops decide to take evidence, you remove tour self belongings from the Vehicle.

Whistles are prohibited, too,

as is anything which may be seen as enjoyment by the plebs for which the Man is not getting a cut.

but that doesn't stop everybody -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4q4AIhMyL0

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 17:03:30 UTC+1, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:45:24 PM UTC-7, T0m $herman wrote:

On 9/21/2013 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip



Alternating on-off (one side on while the other is off) high beams on



cars are quite attention getting. Of course (around here at least),



they are only legal on emergency vehicles.



Unfortunately, Oregon's UVC specifically prohibits sirens on bikes. Whistles are prohibited, too, but that doesn't stop everybody -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4q4AIhMyL0

LOL

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 17:59:36 UTC+1, sms wrote:
On 9/22/2013 9:03 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:45:24 PM UTC-7, T0m $herman wrote:

On 9/21/2013 9:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

snip



Alternating on-off (one side on while the other is off) high beams on



cars are quite attention getting. Of course (around here at least),



they are only legal on emergency vehicles.



Unfortunately, Oregon's UVC specifically prohibits sirens on bikes. Whistles are prohibited, too, but that doesn't stop everybody -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4q4AIhMyL0



I recall reading, many years ago, that a whistle was effective in

stopping most dogs. But not pit bulls.

If they lock on, the normal gerremoff moves and kills wont work. Safest option is to cut it's spinal cord at the base of the skull. There's no joy in fighting such a beast, so get it over with, quickly.

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 18:08:46 UTC+1, T0m $herman wrote:
On 9/21/2013 11:26 PM, John B. wrote:



Having read the various posts regarding lights, I did a bit of

research this morning on my Sunday Ride. I leave the house at sunrise,

I use the Islamic definition of daylight - the ability to tell a black

goat hair from a white goat hair - as my criteria for "light enough".



I based my evaluation of vehicle visibility on observing the hordes of

small motorcycles that we have here and which, by law, must have their

lights on any time that they are moving.



When I leave the house, at dawn, about 0600 in this time of the year,

and with the usual rainy season morning overcast the bike lights

appear very bright and seem to make a very large difference in the

visibility of the motorcycles.



However, by 0730 the sun is well above the horizon and the motorcycle

lights, while still noticeable, appear much dimmer. By 0930 they are

hardly noticeable.



So it appears that (under certain conditions) lights make the vehicle

more visible however these conditions apparently are very much limited

to approximately an hour in the morning and approximately the same

period at sundown and of course during inclement weather - rain, fog,

snow, etc.



Another point is that most motorcycles are likely running 40 - 50

watt, or larger, lights as opposed to the 700 lumen lights recommended

for bicycles.



It might be well to point out that in looking at LED specs I see that

most High Power, single LEDs are said to be 3.2 VDC @ 350 milliamp or

some 1.1 watts. The maximum I came across was 700 ma @ 3.9 VDC or 2.7

watts and the same specifications called out temperatures measured at

350 ma which appears to mean that the higher figures were maximum

momentary figures and normal use figures are in the 1.4 watt range or

perhaps 140 lumen.



If we assume what appears to be a reasonable estimate for lumen per

watt of 100 then a motorcycle light would be approximately 40 X 100 =

4,000 lumen, which is about 6 times brighter then the referenced

bicycle light. But of course, the motorcycle is likely a simple

incandescent light bulb.



I would expect most of the older and/or cheaper scooters and motorcycles

would have 40W incandescent bulb headlights, with the better quality


Nah, 18W is enough on a scooter with a reasonable headlight unit. Most will rarely use a high speed road of a night and even when one does, 40mph is normally the maximum one is comfortable travelling along narrow unlit single carriageway roads. It's the wild animals you see, too late.

On 9/22/2013 4:01 PM, thirty-six wrote:
On Sunday, 22 September 2013 18:08:46 UTC+1, T0m $herman wrote:
On 9/21/2013 11:26 PM, John B. wrote:



Having read the various posts regarding lights, I did a bit of

research this morning on my Sunday Ride. I leave the house at sunrise,

I use the Islamic definition of daylight - the ability to tell a black

goat hair from a white goat hair - as my criteria for "light enough".



I based my evaluation of vehicle visibility on observing the hordes of

small motorcycles that we have here and which, by law, must have their

lights on any time that they are moving.



When I leave the house, at dawn, about 0600 in this time of the year,

and with the usual rainy season morning overcast the bike lights

appear very bright and seem to make a very large difference in the

visibility of the motorcycles.



However, by 0730 the sun is well above the horizon and the motorcycle

lights, while still noticeable, appear much dimmer. By 0930 they are

hardly noticeable.



So it appears that (under certain conditions) lights make the vehicle

more visible however these conditions apparently are very much limited

to approximately an hour in the morning and approximately the same

period at sundown and of course during inclement weather - rain, fog,

snow, etc.



Another point is that most motorcycles are likely running 40 - 50

watt, or larger, lights as opposed to the 700 lumen lights recommended

for bicycles.



It might be well to point out that in looking at LED specs I see that

most High Power, single LEDs are said to be 3.2 VDC @ 350 milliamp or

some 1.1 watts. The maximum I came across was 700 ma @ 3.9 VDC or 2.7

watts and the same specifications called out temperatures measured at

350 ma which appears to mean that the higher figures were maximum

momentary figures and normal use figures are in the 1.4 watt range or

perhaps 140 lumen.



If we assume what appears to be a reasonable estimate for lumen per

watt of 100 then a motorcycle light would be approximately 40 X 100 =

4,000 lumen, which is about 6 times brighter then the referenced

bicycle light. But of course, the motorcycle is likely a simple

incandescent light bulb.



I would expect most of the older and/or cheaper scooters and motorcycles

would have 40W incandescent bulb headlights, with the better quality


Nah, 18W is enough on a scooter with a reasonable headlight unit. Most will rarely use a high speed road of a night and even when one does, 40mph is normally the maximum one is comfortable travelling along narrow unlit single carriageway roads. It's the wild animals you see, too late.

Not a matter of what is and is not necessary, but what such scooters and
small motorcycles actually come equipped with.

A single 60/55W H4 halogen rectangular light is barely adequate for
speeds in the 45 mph range on a back road.

--
T0m $herm@n

On Sunday, 22 September 2013 23:46:27 UTC+1, T0m $herman wrote:
On 9/22/2013 4:01 PM, thirty-six wrote:


Nah, 18W is enough on a scooter with a reasonable headlight unit. Most will rarely use a high speed road of a night and even when one does, 40mph is normally the maximum one is comfortable travelling along narrow unlit single carriageway roads. It's the wild animals you see, too late.



Not a matter of what is and is not necessary, but what such scooters and

small motorcycles actually come equipped with.



A single 60/55W H4 halogen rectangular light is barely adequate for

speeds in the 45 mph range on a back road.


See what I mean, another 40W, three times the power, and only 5mph more useful speed with a great deal more nervousness when the trees are at the road edge.


Unless you want to see an early grave, keep your speed down of a night on them narrow roads. Yeah I've driven the same roads at 90mph plus of a night, but experience mow has me go slower. It doesn't matter that your headlight(s) can reach 1/2 mile down the road, the important stuff to the sides is within 100yds and you better be able to stop in less than half of that. It's silly to try and push another 5 or 10mph when 40mph is reasonable progress and usually a most economical cruising speed. You don't need a long range lamp at such a speed. That's useful for the main drag, not the "back roads". BTW some of our B-class highways are under 4m wide in sections and may have high banking to each side, so you can't see far, cos no-one thought to make then roads straight.

On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 08:04:32 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 09/21/2013 08:47 PM, sms wrote:
On 9/21/2013 3:06 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

He can legitimately believe that a flasher will make you more visible
during the day.

Of course I can legitimately believe it because there's a mountain of
evidence that says that it's true.

*ANECDOTAL* evidence. The kind that you dismiss out of hand when you
disagree with it.

I guess your opinion is the deciding factor as to whether a piece of
anecdotal evidence is valid or not?

I wonder whether anyone stops to think that a survey is simply a lot
of anecdotal evidence?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 9/22/2013 10:01 AM, Dan wrote:
Dan writes:

snip

Gee that was pretty rhetorical, eh? :-)

Part of my ambiguity over the daytime flashing headlight thing
is my unconventional approach to riding on and around the roads:
I do not seek to be part of the entity that is "traffic". I
*will* join it briefly here and there as necessary to get along,
but for the most part I operate alone - seeking to *avoid*
getting into situations where it matters at all whether anybody
sees me. It's really not that difficult to achieve on a bicycle
- save for occasional junctures - because, almost anywhere, the
bicycle can go so very many different ways.

In city cycling that is often true. In more rural areas, such as the
mountainous areas around the Bay Area, it's often not possible to be
away from motor vehicles. It's more in these situations where making
yourself more conspicuous really matters.

On an urban road you're unlikely to be riding more than 15-20 miles an
hour and you can probably stop fast enough such that even if you do
crash into a vehicle that does something stupid in front of you that
your injuries are not going to be that severe provided that you are
wearing a helmet.

In the mountainous areas you can be going 40 mph, sometimes faster, on
long, smooth, straight, downhills. It's these areas, where there are
often a lot of small side streets, that you often see motorists that
must not realize just how fast a bicycle can be coming down the hill
because they'll turn right from the side road onto the main road or left
from the main road into the side road. At 40 mph a helmet is not going
to do much for you.