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  #11  
Old June 11th 21, 05:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_5_]
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Posts: 826
Default Riding

Op vrijdag 11 juni 2021 om 00:07:17 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:23:48 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2021 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 8:08:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Today the wind hasn't picked up to "Oh my God" yet so I will take a ride and test out my shifting on the Eddy Merckx. The only thing I'm worried about is overshifting in the big ring and throwing the chain off.

You know, there is a limit screw on your front derailleur that prevents you from throwing the chain off. You might want to adjust that.

The chain now has three quick links in it and that isn't a good omen but we'll see.

How does that even happen? If it were a Shimano chain, at least you could use pins so you didn't have a bunch of dopey quick links.



"How does that even happen?"
'Mistakes were made'

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
My Habanero does not throw chains off big ring and normally if set correct this should not happen. However sometimes as mentioned J I believe, the small ring will dump the chain. It has not happened to be ever on the Habanero in 25,000 miles but my Wilier would still sometimes dump the small ring. I installed chain catcher and that ended if for good a beautiful little gadget that does not weight anything really.
If you set the front derailleur up exactly right it won't overshift the large ring. But in order to have absolutely dead quiet shifting with no dragging at all in any cog, you have to set it up exactly correct. Then if the limit screws bed in tighter, which they normally do, you have to reset the limit screws. Of course that is AFTER your ride or perhaps during it if you want to stop and reset the limit screws.

The limit screws have nothing to do with adjusting in an indexed front system. They are safety measures for knuckleheads.

What are you talking about Lou? You use Shimano don't you? Campy doesn't work that way. If you don't limit the motion of the front derailleur with the limit screws it can throw the chain all the way out to the pedal. Tell me why the **** there are limit screws if you think that somehow the chain would never come off the chain rings? ALL front derailleurs have limit screws on them and if you believe that you don't need them you are the knucklehead.


I said with an indexed system. You are right about Campy. That is a ratchet system. I use both BTW so I know what I’m talking about.

Lou
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  #12  
Old June 11th 21, 08:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Lou Holtman[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default Riding

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:54:17 AM UTC+2, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 11 juni 2021 om 00:07:17 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:23:48 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2021 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 8:08:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Today the wind hasn't picked up to "Oh my God" yet so I will take a ride and test out my shifting on the Eddy Merckx. The only thing I'm worried about is overshifting in the big ring and throwing the chain off.

You know, there is a limit screw on your front derailleur that prevents you from throwing the chain off. You might want to adjust that.

The chain now has three quick links in it and that isn't a good omen but we'll see.

How does that even happen? If it were a Shimano chain, at least you could use pins so you didn't have a bunch of dopey quick links.



"How does that even happen?"
'Mistakes were made'

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
My Habanero does not throw chains off big ring and normally if set correct this should not happen. However sometimes as mentioned J I believe, the small ring will dump the chain. It has not happened to be ever on the Habanero in 25,000 miles but my Wilier would still sometimes dump the small ring. I installed chain catcher and that ended if for good a beautiful little gadget that does not weight anything really.
If you set the front derailleur up exactly right it won't overshift the large ring. But in order to have absolutely dead quiet shifting with no dragging at all in any cog, you have to set it up exactly correct. Then if the limit screws bed in tighter, which they normally do, you have to reset the limit screws. Of course that is AFTER your ride or perhaps during it if you want to stop and reset the limit screws.
The limit screws have nothing to do with adjusting in an indexed front system. They are safety measures for knuckleheads.

What are you talking about Lou? You use Shimano don't you? Campy doesn't work that way. If you don't limit the motion of the front derailleur with the limit screws it can throw the chain all the way out to the pedal. Tell me why the **** there are limit screws if you think that somehow the chain would never come off the chain rings? ALL front derailleurs have limit screws on them and if you believe that you don't need them you are the knucklehead.

I said with an indexed system. You are right about Campy. That is a ratchet system. I use both BTW so I know what I’m talking about.

Lou



Forgot to tell. A Campy front shifter has 11 clicks IIRC. Shifting between the two chainrings only needs 3 or 4 clicks. They can be anywhere in the range of 11. This said I think it is not wise to limit the movement during adjusting with the limit screws. In that case it can be just before or after a click. Adjust the FD with the barrel adjuster using the full 3 or 4 clicks and then set the limit screws preventing that you move the FD beyond that full click; upper and lower. What I always do with Campy is set the lower limit screw before attaching the cable, attach the cable as tight as possible without moving the FD, move away the limit screws, fine adjust with the barrel adjuster and at last set the limit screws so that they just not touch their stop at the outer click positions of the adjusted FD. How many people start fiddling with the limit screws at the moment shifting gets bad? Those are the knuckleheads who don't understand how it works.

Lou
  #13  
Old June 11th 21, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Riding

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 12:46:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:54:17 AM UTC+2, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 11 juni 2021 om 00:07:17 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:23:48 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2021 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 8:08:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Today the wind hasn't picked up to "Oh my God" yet so I will take a ride and test out my shifting on the Eddy Merckx. The only thing I'm worried about is overshifting in the big ring and throwing the chain off.

You know, there is a limit screw on your front derailleur that prevents you from throwing the chain off. You might want to adjust that..

The chain now has three quick links in it and that isn't a good omen but we'll see.

How does that even happen? If it were a Shimano chain, at least you could use pins so you didn't have a bunch of dopey quick links.



"How does that even happen?"
'Mistakes were made'

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
My Habanero does not throw chains off big ring and normally if set correct this should not happen. However sometimes as mentioned J I believe, the small ring will dump the chain. It has not happened to be ever on the Habanero in 25,000 miles but my Wilier would still sometimes dump the small ring. I installed chain catcher and that ended if for good a beautiful little gadget that does not weight anything really.
If you set the front derailleur up exactly right it won't overshift the large ring. But in order to have absolutely dead quiet shifting with no dragging at all in any cog, you have to set it up exactly correct. Then if the limit screws bed in tighter, which they normally do, you have to reset the limit screws. Of course that is AFTER your ride or perhaps during it if you want to stop and reset the limit screws.
The limit screws have nothing to do with adjusting in an indexed front system. They are safety measures for knuckleheads.
What are you talking about Lou? You use Shimano don't you? Campy doesn't work that way. If you don't limit the motion of the front derailleur with the limit screws it can throw the chain all the way out to the pedal. Tell me why the **** there are limit screws if you think that somehow the chain would never come off the chain rings? ALL front derailleurs have limit screws on them and if you believe that you don't need them you are the knucklehead.

I said with an indexed system. You are right about Campy. That is a ratchet system. I use both BTW so I know what I’m talking about.

Lou

Forgot to tell. A Campy front shifter has 11 clicks IIRC. Shifting between the two chainrings only needs 3 or 4 clicks. They can be anywhere in the range of 11. This said I think it is not wise to limit the movement during adjusting with the limit screws. In that case it can be just before or after a click. Adjust the FD with the barrel adjuster using the full 3 or 4 clicks and then set the limit screws preventing that you move the FD beyond that full click; upper and lower. What I always do with Campy is set the lower limit screw before attaching the cable, attach the cable as tight as possible without moving the FD, move away the limit screws, fine adjust with the barrel adjuster and at last set the limit screws so that they just not touch their stop at the outer click positions of the adjusted FD. How many people start fiddling with the limit screws at the moment shifting gets bad? Those are the knuckleheads who don't understand how it works.

Lou

Lou, you're just repeating the normal set-up procedures. When you're riding a Campy equipped bike shifting up into the big ring isn't a case of going to the next click position but pushing it as it shifts up into the ring. If the limit screw doesn't limit the motions of the derailleur you will often overshift. That is the entire reason that there are limit screws. Even Shimano has the same problem and solves it in a similar manner - even though you have a top (big ring) position, you can overshift without the limit screws.

BTW, sorry to be impolite yesterday, I was just back from that ride and had had the problem that the REAR derailleur had overshifted for exactly the same reason. When you're on very steep climbs and you need to shift down you WILL push the shifter, not just to the next position but slightly over. I am used to this occurring occasionally so I stopped pedaling instantly So that I only had to slip the chain back onto the large cog.

But the component manufacturers are not stupid and they don't put parts on that aren't necessary. Limit screws are a necessity.

I spent what I considered to be a long time setting the derailleurs up and indeed they were absolutely dead silent in every position until I readjusted the rear derailleur to make sure I couldn't overshift the rear derailleur again. And then it was jumping gears since the problem wasn't the adjustment of the shifting but of the limit screw.
  #14  
Old June 11th 21, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Riding

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 8:08:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 12:46:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:54:17 AM UTC+2, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 11 juni 2021 om 00:07:17 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:23:48 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2021 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 8:08:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Today the wind hasn't picked up to "Oh my God" yet so I will take a ride and test out my shifting on the Eddy Merckx. The only thing I'm worried about is overshifting in the big ring and throwing the chain off.

You know, there is a limit screw on your front derailleur that prevents you from throwing the chain off. You might want to adjust that.

The chain now has three quick links in it and that isn't a good omen but we'll see.

How does that even happen? If it were a Shimano chain, at least you could use pins so you didn't have a bunch of dopey quick links.



"How does that even happen?"
'Mistakes were made'

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
My Habanero does not throw chains off big ring and normally if set correct this should not happen. However sometimes as mentioned J I believe, the small ring will dump the chain. It has not happened to be ever on the Habanero in 25,000 miles but my Wilier would still sometimes dump the small ring. I installed chain catcher and that ended if for good a beautiful little gadget that does not weight anything really.
If you set the front derailleur up exactly right it won't overshift the large ring. But in order to have absolutely dead quiet shifting with no dragging at all in any cog, you have to set it up exactly correct. Then if the limit screws bed in tighter, which they normally do, you have to reset the limit screws. Of course that is AFTER your ride or perhaps during it if you want to stop and reset the limit screws.
The limit screws have nothing to do with adjusting in an indexed front system. They are safety measures for knuckleheads.
What are you talking about Lou? You use Shimano don't you? Campy doesn't work that way. If you don't limit the motion of the front derailleur with the limit screws it can throw the chain all the way out to the pedal. Tell me why the **** there are limit screws if you think that somehow the chain would never come off the chain rings? ALL front derailleurs have limit screws on them and if you believe that you don't need them you are the knucklehead.
I said with an indexed system. You are right about Campy. That is a ratchet system. I use both BTW so I know what I’m talking about.

Lou

Forgot to tell. A Campy front shifter has 11 clicks IIRC. Shifting between the two chainrings only needs 3 or 4 clicks. They can be anywhere in the range of 11. This said I think it is not wise to limit the movement during adjusting with the limit screws. In that case it can be just before or after a click. Adjust the FD with the barrel adjuster using the full 3 or 4 clicks and then set the limit screws preventing that you move the FD beyond that full click; upper and lower. What I always do with Campy is set the lower limit screw before attaching the cable, attach the cable as tight as possible without moving the FD, move away the limit screws, fine adjust with the barrel adjuster and at last set the limit screws so that they just not touch their stop at the outer click positions of the adjusted FD. How many people start fiddling with the limit screws at the moment shifting gets bad? Those are the knuckleheads who don't understand how it works.

Lou

Lou, you're just repeating the normal set-up procedures. When you're riding a Campy equipped bike shifting up into the big ring isn't a case of going to the next click position but pushing it as it shifts up into the ring. If the limit screw doesn't limit the motions of the derailleur you will often overshift. That is the entire reason that there are limit screws. Even Shimano has the same problem and solves it in a similar manner - even though you have a top (big ring) position, you can overshift without the limit screws.

BTW, sorry to be impolite yesterday, I was just back from that ride and had had the problem that the REAR derailleur had overshifted for exactly the same reason. When you're on very steep climbs and you need to shift down you WILL push the shifter, not just to the next position but slightly over. I am used to this occurring occasionally so I stopped pedaling instantly So that I only had to slip the chain back onto the large cog.

But the component manufacturers are not stupid and they don't put parts on that aren't necessary. Limit screws are a necessity.

I spent what I considered to be a long time setting the derailleurs up and indeed they were absolutely dead silent in every position until I readjusted the rear derailleur to make sure I couldn't overshift the rear derailleur again. And then it was jumping gears since the problem wasn't the adjustment of the shifting but of the limit screw.


Maybe you should just take it to a shop. The limit screw adjustment isn't going to make your derailleur jump gears.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #15  
Old June 11th 21, 06:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Riding

On 6/11/2021 1:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Maybe you should just take it to a shop.


Words for Tom to live by.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old June 11th 21, 08:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Riding

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:03:40 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 8:08:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 12:46:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:54:17 AM UTC+2, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 11 juni 2021 om 00:07:17 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:23:48 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2021 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 8:08:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Today the wind hasn't picked up to "Oh my God" yet so I will take a ride and test out my shifting on the Eddy Merckx. The only thing I'm worried about is overshifting in the big ring and throwing the chain off.

You know, there is a limit screw on your front derailleur that prevents you from throwing the chain off. You might want to adjust that.

The chain now has three quick links in it and that isn't a good omen but we'll see.

How does that even happen? If it were a Shimano chain, at least you could use pins so you didn't have a bunch of dopey quick links..



"How does that even happen?"
'Mistakes were made'

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
My Habanero does not throw chains off big ring and normally if set correct this should not happen. However sometimes as mentioned J I believe, the small ring will dump the chain. It has not happened to be ever on the Habanero in 25,000 miles but my Wilier would still sometimes dump the small ring. I installed chain catcher and that ended if for good a beautiful little gadget that does not weight anything really.
If you set the front derailleur up exactly right it won't overshift the large ring. But in order to have absolutely dead quiet shifting with no dragging at all in any cog, you have to set it up exactly correct. Then if the limit screws bed in tighter, which they normally do, you have to reset the limit screws. Of course that is AFTER your ride or perhaps during it if you want to stop and reset the limit screws.
The limit screws have nothing to do with adjusting in an indexed front system. They are safety measures for knuckleheads.
What are you talking about Lou? You use Shimano don't you? Campy doesn't work that way. If you don't limit the motion of the front derailleur with the limit screws it can throw the chain all the way out to the pedal.. Tell me why the **** there are limit screws if you think that somehow the chain would never come off the chain rings? ALL front derailleurs have limit screws on them and if you believe that you don't need them you are the knucklehead.
I said with an indexed system. You are right about Campy. That is a ratchet system. I use both BTW so I know what I’m talking about.

Lou
Forgot to tell. A Campy front shifter has 11 clicks IIRC. Shifting between the two chainrings only needs 3 or 4 clicks. They can be anywhere in the range of 11. This said I think it is not wise to limit the movement during adjusting with the limit screws. In that case it can be just before or after a click. Adjust the FD with the barrel adjuster using the full 3 or 4 clicks and then set the limit screws preventing that you move the FD beyond that full click; upper and lower. What I always do with Campy is set the lower limit screw before attaching the cable, attach the cable as tight as possible without moving the FD, move away the limit screws, fine adjust with the barrel adjuster and at last set the limit screws so that they just not touch their stop at the outer click positions of the adjusted FD. How many people start fiddling with the limit screws at the moment shifting gets bad? Those are the knuckleheads who don't understand how it works.

Lou

Lou, you're just repeating the normal set-up procedures. When you're riding a Campy equipped bike shifting up into the big ring isn't a case of going to the next click position but pushing it as it shifts up into the ring.. If the limit screw doesn't limit the motions of the derailleur you will often overshift. That is the entire reason that there are limit screws. Even Shimano has the same problem and solves it in a similar manner - even though you have a top (big ring) position, you can overshift without the limit screws.

BTW, sorry to be impolite yesterday, I was just back from that ride and had had the problem that the REAR derailleur had overshifted for exactly the same reason. When you're on very steep climbs and you need to shift down you WILL push the shifter, not just to the next position but slightly over.. I am used to this occurring occasionally so I stopped pedaling instantly So that I only had to slip the chain back onto the large cog.

But the component manufacturers are not stupid and they don't put parts on that aren't necessary. Limit screws are a necessity.

I spent what I considered to be a long time setting the derailleurs up and indeed they were absolutely dead silent in every position until I readjusted the rear derailleur to make sure I couldn't overshift the rear derailleur again. And then it was jumping gears since the problem wasn't the adjustment of the shifting but of the limit screw.

Maybe you should just take it to a shop. The limit screw adjustment isn't going to make your derailleur jump gears.

-- Jay Beattie.

I had a few prize insults for you but have thought better of it. I suggest you simply read what I wrote rather than looking for some method to make me look incapable of building bikes properly. I've been doing this for at least 30 years so I do know which end of a screwdriver is which.
  #17  
Old June 11th 21, 08:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
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Posts: 2,196
Default Riding

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2021 1:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Maybe you should just take it to a shop.

Words for Tom to live by.


More humor from the academic failure.
  #18  
Old June 11th 21, 09:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Riding

On 6/11/2021 2:26 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:03:40 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 8:08:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 12:46:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 6:54:17 AM UTC+2, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 11 juni 2021 om 00:07:17 UTC+2 schreef :
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:23:48 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 12:48:51 PM UTC-7, Mark cleary wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/10/2021 10:17 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, June 10, 2021 at 8:08:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:


-snip out a lot of blah blah blah-

I had a few prize insults for you but have thought better of it.


Now there's a helpful thought. Kumbaya!


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #19  
Old June 11th 21, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Riding

On 6/11/2021 2:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2021 1:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Maybe you should just take it to a shop.

Words for Tom to live by.


More humor from the academic failure.


Thus ends our kumbaya session for today.

Damned near two whole minutes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #20  
Old June 11th 21, 10:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Riding

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 1:03:33 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/11/2021 2:28 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:18:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2021 1:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Maybe you should just take it to a shop.
Words for Tom to live by.


More humor from the academic failure.

Thus ends our kumbaya session for today.

Damned near two whole minutes.


Jay is a living, thinking being. Frank is not. At least not the "thinking" part.

Frank does not like the idea that I should not worship academic education purely on the grounds that a diploma is awarded and not because the owner of that diploma actually can use the knowledge that education was supposed to impart.

I have had too many examples of so-called highly educated people unable to find the slightest ability to use their educations for the purposes it was designed.

If I had three PhD's formulate the proper equation I would never have burned my lungs with poison gas after working all of the equations out myself.

I would probably have been almost entirely without severe memory loss if my GP and the probably demented neurologist he sent me to would have treated me properly. Not to mention the ER where I was taken after my concussion. Can you imagine the Resident telling me that they didn't keep me for observation because the best that would do would be to see me have a seizure? A Federal Investigator's Nurse Wife spotted the problem at a single glance. My present sister-in-law would have spotted it instantly because she runs the Diabetes program for Contra Costa County and I have diabetic-like seizures.
 




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