Road Discs

On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 4:06:50 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 11:55:11 PM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 29/09/2017 18:01, ha scritto:
On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 12:25:59 AM UTC-7, Cordy wrote:
Il 27/09/2017 23:00, ha scritto:
Thanks Cordy. That is pretty much my idea as well. On heavy
bikes where you might have to stop suddenly - Full Suspension
MTB's or in your case a Touring bike fully loaded - I can see
them but I would still be concerned about pad wear.


I know it's an issue on MTBs. Not on my travl bike, in my
experience. The pads last much more than V-brake shoes on my
friend's bike. The point I was trying to point out was different.
With disks braking action is more easy, in terms of force and
modulation.

I have a set of hydraulic disks on my cross bike. I absolutely would
NOT say that they had "improved" modulation. I would say that they
have greatly increased sensitivity - to the point where it is too
easy to over-brake on a light bike.


Probably, that's what I meant, writing "if the system is properly set",
suggesting to wait a few more months, before purchasing a road disk race
bike. All the systems are new and probably a few of them are not
correctly engineered for the narrow wheels installed on a race bike.
It's too early to point out which are the best systems, now.
Just to mention: I have Avid Elixir 3, which is probably similar to what
you have on your cross bike, but they are a perfect match with my
(heavy) bike. Not too sensitive, for sure. Easy is the right word. NEVER
locked wheels.

Shimano makes a range of hydraulic discs for road bikes. They work beautifully, and the shaking-out of standards relates more to frame mounts and through axle standards for frames. The brakes themselves modulate well and haven't been a problem for me, and IMO, the technology is pretty mature.

What one would expect after a decade and a half experience with hydraulic disc brakes on MTB's. Like you said the possible problems are frame related, as with MTB's.

My first set was on a Roubaix that got stolen, and the second set is on a gravel bike with narrow tires which is now doubling as my "fast" bike, which it isn't. Great for riding in the rain.

The cable discs on my commuter are finally dialed-in. I replaced a weak rear first-generation Avid BB7 as well as some cable housing that added a ton of drag. They take more hand pressure than hydraulics but are exceptionally simple and effective when properly set-up.

I bought my first cross bike after they were available with disc brakes. The first one with cable disc (BB7). To be able to apply enough hand pressure you have to be in the drops. That is not the default hand position on a cross bike. Changing hand position is not easy on a steep bumpy downhill track. With the Shimano disc brakes I can stay on the hoods and be able to brake hard enough on a steep descent without to much hand pressure. With cable disc you still have the issues with cable pollution and drag and I found pad replacement on BB7 a PIA compared with the pad replacement on the Shimano hydraulic brakes. My two cents.

BB7 pad installation is certainly harder than with the Shimano brakes which are like putting a piece of bread in a toaster. Then again, it should be easy, because you pay for it. https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Metal.../dp/B016REU1ZG

-- Jay Beattie.

Goodness! I didn't pay that much for the whole brake set (front and
rear) on any of my bikes :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 10/2/2017 4:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I did a bunch of climbing on Saturday and Sunday in the rain through the West Hills, and the discs were brilliant! (affected speech from watching too many BBC shows).

On language: Personally, I like "brilliant." We need new superlatives!
We wore out "awesome" many years ago. "Boss" is silly, "Great" is
ho-hum, "Excellent" is just not so excellent. And most of these don't
make sense to most of us:
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2...s-say-awesome/

It's high time we imported some superlatives from the Brits, before
Trump makes the import illegal.

Or hey, what do Canadians and Ozzies and Kiwis have to offer? Anything
very good from South Africa?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 23:07:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/2/2017 4:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I did a bunch of climbing on Saturday and Sunday in the rain through the West Hills, and the discs were brilliant! (affected speech from watching too many BBC shows).

On language: Personally, I like "brilliant." We need new superlatives!
We wore out "awesome" many years ago. "Boss" is silly, "Great" is
ho-hum, "Excellent" is just not so excellent. And most of these don't
make sense to most of us:
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2...s-say-awesome/

It's high time we imported some superlatives from the Brits, before
Trump makes the import illegal.

Or hey, what do Canadians and Ozzies and Kiwis have to offer? Anything
very good from South Africa?


Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 1:25:14 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 2:36:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 10:16:26 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 10:27:15 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/2/2017 10:09 AM, sms wrote:

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road/domane/domane-slr/domane-slr-9-disc/p/1477500-2018

We recently purchased a new non-Trek 2017 model. Surprisingly it was
$13,676, nearly $1200 more than this $12,499.99 Trek model and yet it
had hydraulic drum brakes for the rear and hydraulic disc brakes for the
front. Pad replacement is not easy on this model. But it has a lot of
safety features that you don't get on the Trek.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pKsZBaQykZ1r7p62vnJioUb8EG82vepii9FveTaShIU

I bet the Trek has better acceleration and stopping. BTW, you can get a new sub-$3K Domane with discs, which is a really great bike -- and it has fender mounts.

When the crazy springs sales roll around, I'm buying my wife a Trek eBike. And I'm going to get a $3K-ish Emonda to replace my SuperSix. Buy Trek. Keep the economy strong in Wisconsin. Andrew needs tax relief.

I was looking at the Canyon site -- a sub-$2K CF disc endurance bike in the same no-active-suspension niche as the Synapse. https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road/en...cf-sl-disc-7-0 Unbelievably, no fender mounts -- and nothing to which you could mount a fender (no brake bridge, no crown holes). Why would the citizens of a wet nation like Germany build an endurance bike with clearance for large tires and not put in a few 5mm bosses here and there for fenders. Unglaublich!

Fenders on road bikes is a US thing, like commuting with a road bike. Endurance bike is a normal road bike with a more relax geometry for longer rides. Unglaublich, my ass.

You'd be tossed out of a fast group ride during fall/winter/spring if you didn't have full cover fenders with a flap. http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/15/t...g-in-the-rain/

From the ladies at Sorella, including my good friend the old-chick national enduro champion, http://www.sorellaforte.com/club-rides/:

"And lastly, PLEASE install fenders on your bike! Bolted on, full fenders with mud flap extensions. Fenders keep you drier, especially your back side, but also keep from spraying the rider behind you. If it’s raining buckets and you don’t have fenders, you will be sent to the back of the pack."

The endurance bike or gravel bike has become the standard rain bike around here. No way I'm going to be miserable for 50-100 miles in the rain with no fenders. That's a crazy European thing.

What is crazy is riding 50-100 miles in the rain. Must be an US thing. In the rain you get wet anyway, fenders or no fenders. As long as I'm not cold I don't mind.


Now, we do the spring races without fenders, which is like getting hit in the face with a fire hose for 60-70 miles. With glasses, I was racing by Braille.

Yes glasses are a problem. That is the reason I still use contact lenses when I going for a ride.

Lou

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:42:16 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 1:25:14 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 2:36:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 10:16:26 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 10:27:15 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 10/2/2017 10:09 AM, sms wrote:

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/performance-road/domane/domane-slr/domane-slr-9-disc/p/1477500-2018

We recently purchased a new non-Trek 2017 model. Surprisingly it was
$13,676, nearly $1200 more than this $12,499.99 Trek model and yet it
had hydraulic drum brakes for the rear and hydraulic disc brakes for the
front. Pad replacement is not easy on this model. But it has a lot of
safety features that you don't get on the Trek.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pKsZBaQykZ1r7p62vnJioUb8EG82vepii9FveTaShIU

I bet the Trek has better acceleration and stopping. BTW, you can get a new sub-$3K Domane with discs, which is a really great bike -- and it has fender mounts.

When the crazy springs sales roll around, I'm buying my wife a Trek eBike. And I'm going to get a $3K-ish Emonda to replace my SuperSix. Buy Trek. Keep the economy strong in Wisconsin. Andrew needs tax relief.

I was looking at the Canyon site -- a sub-$2K CF disc endurance bike in the same no-active-suspension niche as the Synapse. https://www.canyon..com/en-us/road/e...cf-sl-disc-7-0 Unbelievably, no fender mounts -- and nothing to which you could mount a fender (no brake bridge, no crown holes). Why would the citizens of a wet nation like Germany build an endurance bike with clearance for large tires and not put in a few 5mm bosses here and there for fenders. Unglaublich!

Fenders on road bikes is a US thing, like commuting with a road bike. Endurance bike is a normal road bike with a more relax geometry for longer rides. Unglaublich, my ass.

You'd be tossed out of a fast group ride during fall/winter/spring if you didn't have full cover fenders with a flap. http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/15/t...g-in-the-rain/

From the ladies at Sorella, including my good friend the old-chick national enduro champion, http://www.sorellaforte.com/club-rides/:

"And lastly, PLEASE install fenders on your bike! Bolted on, full fenders with mud flap extensions. Fenders keep you drier, especially your back side, but also keep from spraying the rider behind you. If it’s raining buckets and you don’t have fenders, you will be sent to the back of the pack."

The endurance bike or gravel bike has become the standard rain bike around here. No way I'm going to be miserable for 50-100 miles in the rain with no fenders. That's a crazy European thing.

What is crazy is riding 50-100 miles in the rain. Must be an US thing. In the rain you get wet anyway, fenders or no fenders. As long as I'm not cold I don't mind.

I do. I'd much rather not have a wet butt. It's like riding with a full diaper. My Amfibs will keep me pretty dry with falling rain but not with wheel spray -- and with a lot of water on the road, the spray can be like a cold fire-hose bidet. YMMV. And again, with group riding, I don't want to be shunned. To each his or her own, but if given a choice, I'm using fenders -- and avoiding the guys going fenderless.

I wear contacts skiing but usually not riding for a number of reasons, although I might give them a whirl on really bad rain days this year. I just don't like carrying reading glasses and don't like the mono-vision thing (one lens in). I also worry about them getting flushed out, which is probably not a legitimate worry.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yes glasses are a problem. That is the reason I still use contact lenses wh=
en I going for a ride.

When I can't see through my glasses, I put them into my pocket. I
don't need to read the model of the truck, I only need to know where
it is, how big it is, and how fast it's moving.

Twice in the last fifty years I've taken shelter on the porch of a
perfect stranger. Both times I was invited in, but declined. (The
first time it was a whole tour group on the porch.)

Once I waited on the front porch of a bank for the rain to slack off
enough that I could see to go on. (Had a dreadful time finding a
place to get off the road when I couldn't see through the wall of
water!) I've waited out showers lots of times.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 6:50:50 PM UTC+2, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yes glasses are a problem. That is the reason I still use contact lenses wh=
en I going for a ride.

When I can't see through my glasses, I put them into my pocket. I
don't need to read the model of the truck, I only need to know where
it is, how big it is, and how fast it's moving.

Twice in the last fifty years I've taken shelter on the porch of a
perfect stranger. Both times I was invited in, but declined. (The
first time it was a whole tour group on the porch.)

Once I waited on the front porch of a bank for the rain to slack off
enough that I could see to go on. (Had a dreadful time finding a
place to get off the road when I couldn't see through the wall of
water!) I've waited out showers lots of times.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Once I am on the road I never stop for a shower or the rain because that is the time you get cold. Even when you stop you get wet anyway because the roads are wet then.

Lou

On 10/3/2017 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 6:50:50 PM UTC+2, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yes glasses are a problem. That is the reason I still use contact lenses wh=
en I going for a ride.

When I can't see through my glasses, I put them into my pocket. I
don't need to read the model of the truck, I only need to know where
it is, how big it is, and how fast it's moving.

Twice in the last fifty years I've taken shelter on the porch of a
perfect stranger. Both times I was invited in, but declined. (The
first time it was a whole tour group on the porch.)

Once I waited on the front porch of a bank for the rain to slack off
enough that I could see to go on. (Had a dreadful time finding a
place to get off the road when I couldn't see through the wall of
water!) I've waited out showers lots of times.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Once I am on the road I never stop for a shower or the rain because that is the time you get cold. Even when you stop you get wet anyway because the roads are wet then.

I remember stopping for thunderstorms so violent that lightning was
hitting all around me.

On the other hand, I remember riding in the southern U.S. and welcoming
a thunderstorm because it cooled us off. My wife and I were laughing as
we rode along.

For me, light rain with little wind is tolerable if the weather is warm
and motor traffic is light. Heavy rain is miserable, especially if any
of the other factors are wrong.


--
- Frank Krygowski

wrote:
:On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 6:50:50 PM UTC+2, Joy Beeson wrote:
: On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
:
: Yes glasses are a problem. That is the reason I still use contact lenses wh=
: en I going for a ride.
:
: When I can't see through my glasses, I put them into my pocket. I
: don't need to read the model of the truck, I only need to know where
: it is, how big it is, and how fast it's moving.
:
: Twice in the last fifty years I've taken shelter on the porch of a
: perfect stranger. Both times I was invited in, but declined. (The
: first time it was a whole tour group on the porch.)
:
: Once I waited on the front porch of a bank for the rain to slack off
: enough that I could see to go on. (Had a dreadful time finding a
: place to get off the road when I couldn't see through the wall of
: water!) I've waited out showers lots of times.
:
: --
: Joy Beeson
: joy beeson at comcast dot net
: http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

:Once I am on the road I never stop for a shower or the rain because that is the time you get cold. Even when you stop you get wet anyway because the roads are wet then.

If you didn't have an irrational fear of fenders, you could ride on
wet pavement.

--
sig 35

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:43:49 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/3/2017 2:16 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 6:50:50 PM UTC+2, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 07:42:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yes glasses are a problem. That is the reason I still use contact lenses wh=
en I going for a ride.

When I can't see through my glasses, I put them into my pocket. I
don't need to read the model of the truck, I only need to know where
it is, how big it is, and how fast it's moving.

Twice in the last fifty years I've taken shelter on the porch of a
perfect stranger. Both times I was invited in, but declined. (The
first time it was a whole tour group on the porch.)

Once I waited on the front porch of a bank for the rain to slack off
enough that I could see to go on. (Had a dreadful time finding a
place to get off the road when I couldn't see through the wall of
water!) I've waited out showers lots of times.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

Once I am on the road I never stop for a shower or the rain because that is the time you get cold. Even when you stop you get wet anyway because the roads are wet then.

I remember stopping for thunderstorms so violent that lightning was
hitting all around me.

On the other hand, I remember riding in the southern U.S. and welcoming
a thunderstorm because it cooled us off. My wife and I were laughing as
we rode along.

For me, light rain with little wind is tolerable if the weather is warm
and motor traffic is light. Heavy rain is miserable, especially if any
of the other factors are wrong.

The afternoon summer storms in the Mid-West are of biblical proportions -- you can barely see through the buckets of rain. The storms pass in five or ten minutes, and then it gets steamy. It's sort of other-worldly for someone from the West Coast.

I was riding around the Lake of the Ozarks, which is a more or less a levy road, and it was pouring -- and a lightening bolt landed about twenty feet away, hitting a car that was nosing up out of a camp ground. It was like having a Howitzer go off next to me. I'll never forget it.

Around here, showers typically turn to rain, so you can stop to dodge the hardest rain-fall, but you are going to get wet no matter what. No lighting or mountain lions.

-- Jay Beattie.