Frame waxing

Hello all,

I'm not too prissy about how my bike looks, even my best bike would be
considered a total beater by most, but English weather, only trumped by
the even more changeable Scottish weather, leaves grit all over my bikes.
I'm thinking of waxing the frames so that it is both easier to quickly
wash the bikes with a hose on those really bad occasions and so that some
dirt is repelled from drive components in order to increase they're
lifespan/usefulness.

To this end I'm thinking about using a solid wax, beeswax or paraffin,
and applying it so as to leave a good mm of solid wax in place,
especially on the bb shell and chainstays. Has anyone done this with any
success? Can any one think of negatives? Attracting more grit for example?

How do we think this would work on drive components? Too slippery?

Your thought welcomed.

K

On Jun 23, 10:29*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hello all,

I'm not too prissy about how my bike looks, even my best bike would be
considered a total beater by most, but English weather, only trumped by
the even more changeable Scottish weather, leaves grit all over my bikes.
I'm thinking of waxing the frames so that it is both easier to quickly
wash the bikes with a hose on those really bad occasions and so that some
dirt is repelled from drive components in order to increase they're
lifespan/usefulness.

To this end I'm thinking about using a solid wax, beeswax or paraffin,

Use a commercial car wax preparation, it will contain harder waxes
than you can normally get hold of. Turtle wax is a decent one (which
I used), but whatever is cheap (small container) and is hand applied
and buffed will do. Lasts years. I forgot I'd done it till you
reminded me. I now realise why my downtube repair doesn't look too
good (after a few years of not too careful upkeep). Really do a good
job and you'll probably not need to do it again for ten years or
more. I generally avoid cleaning, give the bike a good bang on the
doorstep to knock off the loose stuff.

and applying it so as to leave a good mm of solid wax in place,

Not required.

especially on the bb shell and chainstays. Has anyone done this with any
success? Can any one think of negatives? Attracting more grit for example?

How do we think this would work on drive components? Too slippery?

No such thing, use a molybdenum disulphide preparation.

"Keiron" wrote in message
...
Hello all,

I'm not too prissy about how my bike looks, even my best bike would be
considered a total beater by most, but English weather, only trumped by
the even more changeable Scottish weather, leaves grit all over my bikes.
I'm thinking of waxing the frames so that it is both easier to quickly
wash the bikes with a hose on those really bad occasions and so that some
dirt is repelled from drive components in order to increase they're
lifespan/usefulness.

To this end I'm thinking about using a solid wax, beeswax or paraffin,
and applying it so as to leave a good mm of solid wax in place,
especially on the bb shell and chainstays. Has anyone done this with any
success? Can any one think of negatives? Attracting more grit for example?

How do we think this would work on drive components? Too slippery?

Your thought welcomed.

K

When I bought my bike in 2003(chain reaction in los altos) the day I got it
I waxed everything. The frame was waxed, rims, spokes, front and rear hubs,
derailleurs front and rear, seatpost, that small inch of handle bar,
shifters, cable housings- everything. Most of the bike looks good after 8
years. Couple things have peeled like the cable stops under the top tube,
now rusty. Some paint bubbled off the bottom bracket shell. Looks pretty
good, easier to clean when waxed. I think I go faster on a waxed bike over
those who don't wax their bicycles.

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:29:45 GMT, Keiron
wrote:

I'm not too prissy about how my bike looks, even my best bike would be
considered a total beater by most, but English weather, only trumped by
the even more changeable Scottish weather, leaves grit all over my bikes.

Acid rain rotting the exposed surfaces? The wax also seals the dings
preventing the underlying metal from rusting. No clue what it will do
to carbon fiber.

I'm thinking of waxing the frames so that it is both easier to quickly
wash the bikes with a hose on those really bad occasions and so that some
dirt is repelled from drive components in order to increase they're
lifespan/usefulness.

Yep. I wax the frame in order to make the bike more sellable. I
blundered across this stuff:
http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/product_detail.asp?T1=MEG+MC20206
which is made for motorcycles. There are others made for vehicles and
motorcycles that will work. I figured it was good enough for my
bicycles. Two years so far and it's still shiny and easy to clean.
Watch out for abrasive waxes. Abrasives will give the painted
surfaces a cleaner and better polish, but will also trash your decals
and stickers.

To this end I'm thinking about using a solid wax, beeswax or paraffin,
and applying it so as to leave a good mm of solid wax in place,
especially on the bb shell and chainstays.

No benefit to having a really thick coating. All that does it capture
dirt. You need to have it sufficiently thin so that the crud doesn't
stick. Use the well known automobile and motorcycle products instead.

Has anyone done this with any
success? Can any one think of negatives? Attracting more grit for example?

One downside is that you have to buff to get a decent wax job. There
are many places on a bicycle that are difficult to buff, so you might
leave some hard wax behind as white dust in some obscure places. The
roof rack on my Subaru is like that. Where I couldn't buff, is now a
white streaked mess.

To create maximum damage, I clever discovered that window cleaner
(with ammonia) will nicely remove wax. So, I tried to remove the
white crud with some Windex. That took the wax off the paint, and
left it on the roof rack on my Subaru. I had to re-apply the wax to
the painted surfaces, leaving even more white dust. Can't win.

How do we think this would work on drive components? Too slippery?

If you can't find a technical merit to using an alternative lube, then
sticking with the conventional lubricants is a safer and better
option. Experimentation is always interesting, but only if there's a
good reason.

One of my friends proposed a line of "natural" lubricants, all of them
refined from plants. There's no technical benefit, except to be able
to advertise as "natural" or possibly "organic" lubes, for those with
an aversion to petro products.

Your thought welcomed.

Oops. I supplied more than one thought.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Jun 24, 12:20*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 21:29:45 GMT, Keiron
wrote:

I'm not too prissy about how my bike looks, even my best bike would be
considered a total beater by most, but English weather, only trumped by
the even more changeable Scottish weather, leaves grit all over my bikes..

Acid rain rotting the exposed surfaces? *The wax also seals the dings
preventing the underlying metal from rusting. *No clue what it will do
to carbon fiber.

I'm thinking of waxing the frames so that it is both easier to quickly
wash the bikes with a hose on those really bad occasions and so that some
dirt is repelled from drive components in order to increase they're
lifespan/usefulness.

Yep. *I wax the frame in order to make the bike more sellable. *I
blundered across this stuff:
http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/product_detail.asp?T1=MEG+MC20206
which is made for motorcycles. *There are others made for vehicles and
motorcycles that will work. *I figured it was good enough for my
bicycles. *Two years so far and it's still shiny and easy to clean.
Watch out for abrasive waxes. *Abrasives will give the painted
surfaces a cleaner and better polish, but will also trash your decals
and stickers.

To this end I'm thinking about using a solid wax, beeswax or paraffin,
and applying it so as to leave a good mm of solid wax in place,
especially on the bb shell and chainstays.

No benefit to having a really thick coating. *All that does it capture
dirt. *You need to have it sufficiently thin so that the crud doesn't
stick. *Use the well known automobile and motorcycle products instead.

Has anyone done this with any
success? Can any one think of negatives? Attracting more grit for example?

One downside is that you have to buff to get a decent wax job. *There
are many places on a bicycle that are difficult to buff, so you might
leave some hard wax behind as white dust in some obscure places. *The
roof rack on my Subaru is like that. *Where I couldn't buff, is now a
white streaked mess.

To create maximum damage, I clever discovered that window cleaner
(with ammonia) will nicely remove wax. *So, I tried to remove the
white crud with some Windex. *That took the wax off the paint, and
left it on the roof rack on my Subaru. *I had to re-apply the wax to
the painted surfaces, leaving even more white dust. *Can't win.

How do we think this would work on drive components? Too slippery?

If you can't find a technical merit to using an alternative lube, then
sticking with the conventional lubricants is a safer and better
option. *Experimentation is always interesting, but only if there's a
good reason. *

One of my friends proposed a line of "natural" lubricants, all of them
refined from plants. *There's no technical benefit, except to be able
to advertise as "natural" or possibly "organic" lubes, for those with
an aversion to petro products.


Particularly smell. Castor oil is as far as human scent detection
goes, odourless. I don't know how well it performs in warmer climates
(because it will tend to dry and gum if it gets hot), but it works
well in England. To try to prove it's effectiveness in warmer
environments I used it as a turntable lubricant )record player) with
the venting blocked so that it got warm from the motor. With a
moderately warm running the lubricant did thicken (160 hrs running),
I'd be cautious about using this as a longer term hub or chain
lubricant in warmer climates than the English summer.
If you do use molybdenum disulphide then relubrication requirements
are reduced so you are exposed to less carrier oil than using a more
typical mineral oil lubricant.

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

Particularly smell. Castor oil is as far as human scent detection
goes, odourless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_oil
That's where the name Castrol came from. It's also listed as:
"Castor oil is the preferred lubricant for bicycle pumps,
most likely because it does not dissolve natural rubber seals."
Umm... ok.

White lithium grease is mostly castor oil. Oil for vegetarians. It
might actually sell with that slogan.

Back in the 1960's, I had the displeasure of helping rebuild an
antique automobile that used whale oil in the automatic transmission.
The smell of dead fish permeated everything. It also attracted cats
from miles around:
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/725.cfm
Whale oil is allegedly still used today by NASA since it doesn't
freeze easily. I dunno if I really believe that:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10/whale-oil-as-space-lubricant.php

I don't know how well it performs in warmer climates
(because it will tend to dry and gum if it gets hot), but it works
well in England.

Many years ago, I stupidly lubricated the rotary phone dial mechanisms
on several phones. I don't recall if it was castor oil or kitchen
vegetable oil. When the volatiles eventually disappeared, I found
that it also makes a great adhesive.

To try to prove it's effectiveness in warmer
environments I used it as a turntable lubricant )record player) with
the venting blocked so that it got warm from the motor. With a
moderately warm running the lubricant did thicken (160 hrs running),
I'd be cautious about using this as a longer term hub or chain
lubricant in warmer climates than the English summer.

In California, castor oil will probably turn to tar in a week.

If you do use molybdenum disulphide then relubrication requirements
are reduced so you are exposed to less carrier oil than using a more
typical mineral oil lubricant.

Yeah, but that's too easy. The trick here is to use any manner of oil
that can be advertised as non-petroleum based and preferably
bio-degradable. It will be difficult to formulate something that will
be as good as molybdenum disulfide, but it just might be worth a try
for non-critical application.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Jun 24, 3:31*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
Particularly smell. *Castor oil is as far as human scent detection
goes, odourless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_oil
That's where the name Castrol came from. *It's also listed as:
* *"Castor oil is the preferred lubricant for bicycle pumps,
* *most likely because it does not dissolve natural rubber seals."
Umm... ok.

True. It was also used on leather washered pumps as it too was kind
to the leather.

White lithium grease is mostly castor oil. *Oil for vegetarians. *It
might actually sell with that slogan.

So, will Fuller's earth with castor oil work as a grease lubricant?


Back in the 1960's, I had the displeasure of helping rebuild an
antique automobile that used whale oil in the automatic transmission.
The smell of dead fish permeated everything. *It also attracted cats
from miles around:
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/725.cfm
Whale oil is allegedly still used today by NASA since it doesn't
freeze easily. *I dunno if I really believe that:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10/whale-oil-as-space-lubricant.php

I don't know how well it performs in warmer climates
(because it will tend to dry and gum if it gets hot), but it works
well in England.

Many years ago, I stupidly lubricated the rotary phone dial mechanisms
on several phones. *I don't recall if it was castor oil or kitchen
vegetable oil. *When the volatiles eventually disappeared, I found
that it also makes a great adhesive.

It's OK, I used linseed oil to lubricate a typewriter, absolutely
wonderfully smooth andd quite (and working for two days). I was 9
years old IIRC.

To try to prove it's effectiveness in warmer
environments I used it as a turntable lubricant )record player) with
the venting blocked so that it got warm from the motor. *With a
moderately warm running the lubricant did thicken (160 hrs running),
I'd be cautious about using this as a longer term hub or chain
lubricant in warmer climates than the English summer.

In California, castor oil will probably turn to tar in a week.

I doubt the effects would be so pronounced, but I could well believe
there would be difficulties in a month if the bike was left standing
in the sun.

If you do use molybdenum disulphide then relubrication requirements
are reduced so you are exposed to less carrier oil than using a more
typical mineral oil lubricant.

Yeah, but that's too easy. *The trick here is to use any manner of oil
that can be advertised as non-petroleum based and preferably
bio-degradable. *It will be difficult to formulate something that will
be as good as molybdenum disulfide, but it just might be worth a try
for non-critical application.

I don't bother too much with paying attention to relubrication because
my chains have received the magic stuff at some point. It's effects
continue even though a non-loaded oil is followed.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:40:04 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

I don't bother too much with paying attention to relubrication because
my chains have received the magic stuff at some point. It's effects
continue even though a non-loaded oil is followed.

I need a rant...

Speaking of chains, I wonder if the basic bike chain is really
optimum. On big conveyor drives, the pin and sleeve roller chain
sometimes have grooves on the pin intended to transport any crud that
gets between the pin and sleeve. There are usually two grooves, in
opposite directions, starting in the middle. The crud accumulates
between the side plate and sleeve, which is brushed off where the
chain goes around the drive gears. The chain has to be lubed quite
often as the grooves also transport the grease to the outside, but
that's still cheaper and easier than dealing with link wear and
bushing damage. It would not be too difficult to adapt such a system
for bicycles if one is willing to tolerate regular re-lubrications in
trade for reduced wear.

Incidentally, I also wonder about the trend towards harder and
"smoother" bushing surfaces in bicycle chains. Logic would seem to
suggest that the harder and smoother the surface, the longer it would
last. That's not the case, as a really smooth mirror finish does not
retain the lubricant as well as a slightly rough surface. As long as
there is no metal to metal contact (and no crud), the chain could
theoretically last forever riding on oil. So, the goal would be to
have a thin film of oil on the surface, which requires some surface
roughness. I gotta look at some chain under the microscope and see
what they're doing.

Personally, I think the use of roller chain on bicycles is antiquated.
Plastic drive cables, that look like a stainless wire rope, with round
plastic lumps, will work in place of the chain. For the crank and
freewheel, a solid ring, with half round receptacles and grooves for
the cable. It would be quiet, possibly easy to shift, and weigh less.
With everything on the outside, also easy to clean. If a single cable
drive is too radical, two cables with cylinderical cross links might
be convinced to work with conventional cranks and freewheels. One
problem I don't know how to solve is that this cable drive will
probably need a removable "link" for installation and removal. I
haven't devised a suitable way to do that with a cable quite yet.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Jun 24, 5:42*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:40:04 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

wrote:
I don't bother too much with paying attention to relubrication because
my chains have received the magic stuff at some point. *It's effects
continue even though a non-loaded oil is followed.

I need a rant...

Speaking of chains, I wonder if the basic bike chain is really
optimum. *On big conveyor drives, the pin and sleeve roller chain
sometimes have grooves on the pin intended to transport any crud that
gets between the pin and sleeve. *There are usually two grooves, in
opposite directions, starting in the middle. *The crud accumulates
between the side plate and sleeve, which is brushed off where the
chain goes around the drive gears. *The chain has to be lubed quite
often as the grooves also transport the grease to the outside, but
that's still cheaper and easier than dealing with link wear and
bushing damage. *It would not be too difficult to adapt such a system
for bicycles if one is willing to tolerate regular re-lubrications in
trade for reduced wear. *

Incidentally, I also wonder about the trend towards harder and
"smoother" bushing surfaces in bicycle chains. *Logic would seem to
suggest that the harder and smoother the surface, the longer it would
last. *That's not the case, as a really smooth mirror finish does not
retain the lubricant as well as a slightly rough surface. *As long as
there is no metal to metal contact (and no crud), the chain could
theoretically last forever riding on oil. *So, the goal would be to
have a thin film of oil on the surface, which requires some surface
roughness. *I gotta look at some chain under the microscope and see
what they're doing.

Personally, I think the use of roller chain on bicycles is antiquated.
Plastic drive cables, that look like a stainless wire rope, with round
plastic lumps, will work in place of the chain. *For the crank and
freewheel, a solid ring, with half round receptacles and grooves for
the cable. *It would be quiet, possibly easy to shift, and weigh less.
With everything on the outside, also easy to clean. *If a single cable
drive is too radical, two cables with cylinderical cross links might
be convinced to work with conventional cranks and freewheels. *One
problem I don't know how to solve is that this cable drive will
probably need a removable "link" for installation and removal. *I
haven't devised a suitable way to do that with a cable quite yet.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

I wouldn't be wanting to be riding that cable drive when it snaps.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:54:19 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

I wouldn't be wanting to be riding that cable drive when it snaps.

Ok, no free rides for you.

The cable idea is nothing new. (I just hate it when I reinvent the
wheel). See Pg 325 of Bicycle Science 3rd Edition by David Gordon
Wilson, for some discussion of alternatives to roller chain drive.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0JJo6DlF9iMC&lpg=PA335&ots=TsTGIQatg7&dq= snek%20bicycle&pg=PA311#v=onepage&q&f=false
Argh... most of the photos and illustrations are missing. Buy the
book. It's worth at least skimming.
http://www.amazon.com/Bicycling-Science-David-Gordon-Wilson/dp/0262731541

Pictured and listed in the text are several variation of what I
described. The WM Berg Flex-E-Pitch cable drive chain was used in the
Gossamer Condor etc as a weight saving device.
http://precisionparts.wmberg.com/timingBeltsChains/
See under "Belts and Chains" - "Roller Chains"

There are other ideas mentioned, such a perforated steel belts,
toothed rubber belts, and other cable transmissions. There's a photo
of a "SNEK" cable transmission on Pg 335, showing the grooved
freewheel as I described.
http://rowingbike.com/site/DE/Technik/CVT/Snek/pnCurrent:2/
(also see other pages on this site).

Feel safer now?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558