Headsets

On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG

Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark



Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 12:28:35 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them.. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing.. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So today I decided to remove the headset and the cups. Wow the bottom cup indeed the bearing was galvanically corroded to the inside of the cup. The bearing came apart and I had to take a screw drive and drive out the side of the bearing that rest on the upper side of the lower cup. Cleaned the headtube up with rubbing alcohol and now just waiting for the new headset to be delivered. Per Andrew I bought some anti seize to press the cups in since it is a Ti frame. Then I got a 1/2 thread rod and 2 nuts with large fender washers to press the new headset in.

So now my lube question is when I assemble the Ritchey Headset as it is an external cup, I will drop the bearing in the cups. Normally I use white lithium grease but I bought a tube of marine grease. I am thinking i probably should use marine grease a better grade. I should grease the bearings on both sides as they sit in top and bottom correct? The rest is easy I just set the pre-load after I get the carbon plug in the steerer. That I know and generally should be no issue since I am duplicating everything the same. The question I have to this is that is it normal after a few hundred 100 miles to need to adjust the headset. When I got the bike it was find and I never made and adjustment until maybe a few months ago. This was of course due to the headset bearing going bad and it was a very small adjustment.

I have 20,000 miles on the bike and of course the headset. I don't normally ride in the rain but sometimes I have gotten caught in a downpour. A few times I have road with a light rain and of course the usual wet conditions. Does that seem enough to cause a headset to go this bad? Also maybe should I each winter take the bike apart and clean and re-lube everything. In other words not like a tune up but remove derailleurs and clean them and re-install? To me that seems a bit much as I am one of those that if it is not broke don't fix it. But I do know cyclist will do this so seat post will not get seize and such. What about the bearings in my hubs I have Shimano 32 hole ultegra hubs that seem to spin absolutely fine no drag or any issues?

Being a guitar repairman/luthier I am pretty conservative and sometimes guitars want to do things that I say they need leave alone till it causes a problem. No need to replace frets if you can dress them and the guitar will play fine. Obviously at some point you run out of material and then new frets.

Deacon Mark

On 11/12/2020 2:56 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 12:28:35 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So today I decided to remove the headset and the cups. Wow the bottom cup indeed the bearing was galvanically corroded to the inside of the cup. The bearing came apart and I had to take a screw drive and drive out the side of the bearing that rest on the upper side of the lower cup. Cleaned the headtube up with rubbing alcohol and now just waiting for the new headset to be delivered. Per Andrew I bought some anti seize to press the cups in since it is a Ti frame. Then I got a 1/2 thread rod and 2 nuts with large fender washers to press the new headset in.

So now my lube question is when I assemble the Ritchey Headset as it is an external cup, I will drop the bearing in the cups. Normally I use white lithium grease but I bought a tube of marine grease. I am thinking i probably should use marine grease a better grade. I should grease the bearings on both sides as they sit in top and bottom correct? The rest is easy I just set the pre-load after I get the carbon plug in the steerer. That I know and generally should be no issue since I am duplicating everything the same. The question I have to this is that is it normal after a few hundred 100 miles to need to adjust the headset. When I got the bike it was find and I never made and adjustment until maybe a few months ago. This was of course due to the headset bearing going bad and it was a very small adjustment.

I have 20,000 miles on the bike and of course the headset. I don't normally ride in the rain but sometimes I have gotten caught in a downpour. A few times I have road with a light rain and of course the usual wet conditions. Does that seem enough to cause a headset to go this bad? Also maybe should I each winter take the bike apart and clean and re-lube everything. In other words not like a tune up but remove derailleurs and clean them and re-install? To me that seems a bit much as I am one of those that if it is not broke don't fix it. But I do know cyclist will do this so seat post will not get seize and such. What about the bearings in my hubs I have Shimano 32 hole ultegra hubs that seem to spin absolutely fine no drag or any issues?

Being a guitar repairman/luthier I am pretty conservative and sometimes guitars want to do things that I say they need leave alone till it causes a problem. No need to replace frets if you can dress them and the guitar will play fine. Obviously at some point you run out of material and then new frets.

Deacon Mark



That type of bearing shouldn't need any adjustment after
once set up properly.

Steel bearing case in aluminum cup is the same problem as
aluminum cup in titanium frame, albeit less reactive. Yes,
anti-seize paste where dissimilar metals touch. Or grease.
Or something. Adding water (or humidity) between them makes
a battery with the results you saw.

Wouldn't hurt to open the bearing seals to ensure they are
filled with grease. If not, do that before popping the seals
back on. And I assume you know this but I'll write it
anyway: press the cups in place before you drop in the
bearings (don't press on bearings).

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 4:09:15 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2020 2:56 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 12:28:35 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So today I decided to remove the headset and the cups. Wow the bottom cup indeed the bearing was galvanically corroded to the inside of the cup. The bearing came apart and I had to take a screw drive and drive out the side of the bearing that rest on the upper side of the lower cup. Cleaned the headtube up with rubbing alcohol and now just waiting for the new headset to be delivered. Per Andrew I bought some anti seize to press the cups in since it is a Ti frame. Then I got a 1/2 thread rod and 2 nuts with large fender washers to press the new headset in.

So now my lube question is when I assemble the Ritchey Headset as it is an external cup, I will drop the bearing in the cups. Normally I use white lithium grease but I bought a tube of marine grease. I am thinking i probably should use marine grease a better grade. I should grease the bearings on both sides as they sit in top and bottom correct? The rest is easy I just set the pre-load after I get the carbon plug in the steerer. That I know and generally should be no issue since I am duplicating everything the same. The question I have to this is that is it normal after a few hundred 100 miles to need to adjust the headset. When I got the bike it was find and I never made and adjustment until maybe a few months ago. This was of course due to the headset bearing going bad and it was a very small adjustment.

I have 20,000 miles on the bike and of course the headset. I don't normally ride in the rain but sometimes I have gotten caught in a downpour. A few times I have road with a light rain and of course the usual wet conditions. Does that seem enough to cause a headset to go this bad? Also maybe should I each winter take the bike apart and clean and re-lube everything. In other words not like a tune up but remove derailleurs and clean them and re-install? To me that seems a bit much as I am one of those that if it is not broke don't fix it. But I do know cyclist will do this so seat post will not get seize and such. What about the bearings in my hubs I have Shimano 32 hole ultegra hubs that seem to spin absolutely fine no drag or any issues?

Being a guitar repairman/luthier I am pretty conservative and sometimes guitars want to do things that I say they need leave alone till it causes a problem. No need to replace frets if you can dress them and the guitar will play fine. Obviously at some point you run out of material and then new frets.

Deacon Mark

That type of bearing shouldn't need any adjustment after
once set up properly.

Steel bearing case in aluminum cup is the same problem as
aluminum cup in titanium frame, albeit less reactive. Yes,
anti-seize paste where dissimilar metals touch. Or grease.
Or something. Adding water (or humidity) between them makes
a battery with the results you saw.

Wouldn't hurt to open the bearing seals to ensure they are
filled with grease. If not, do that before popping the seals
back on. And I assume you know this but I'll write it
anyway: press the cups in place before you drop in the
bearings (don't press on bearings).
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Andrew I appreciate you taking care of the deacon. We deacons are suppose to take care of the widows and orphans but sometimes other take care of us. I hope you are doing ok in the COVID up there north of me. Sometime I might make a pilgrimage to your shop. Seems like a nice place in a not so busy area. Around these parts right we have a pretty good spike of covid and it is not getting better. Pritzker is threating another shelter in place mandate, that is not going to sit well. Seems if you are in the restaurant business especially the non-fast food stuff it is almost a breaker. Bike shops around here seem to not carry a thing related to parts other the the most obvious. I hate to say it but I am pretty sure some of the mechanics could not build a wheel if had to are rebuild one. I think it is like the guitar business. I never deal with the local music stores, players who need serious repair just call me. I have to source all my stuff from specialty places. The local music shops will change your strings sometimes do a set up and get it ok. But when you $7000 Gibson L5 needs new frets you got to go deeper to find the person who can do that.

Deacon Mark

On 11/12/2020 4:42 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 4:09:15 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2020 2:56 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 12:28:35 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So today I decided to remove the headset and the cups. Wow the bottom cup indeed the bearing was galvanically corroded to the inside of the cup. The bearing came apart and I had to take a screw drive and drive out the side of the bearing that rest on the upper side of the lower cup. Cleaned the headtube up with rubbing alcohol and now just waiting for the new headset to be delivered. Per Andrew I bought some anti seize to press the cups in since it is a Ti frame. Then I got a 1/2 thread rod and 2 nuts with large fender washers to press the new headset in.

So now my lube question is when I assemble the Ritchey Headset as it is an external cup, I will drop the bearing in the cups. Normally I use white lithium grease but I bought a tube of marine grease. I am thinking i probably should use marine grease a better grade. I should grease the bearings on both sides as they sit in top and bottom correct? The rest is easy I just set the pre-load after I get the carbon plug in the steerer. That I know and generally should be no issue since I am duplicating everything the same. The question I have to this is that is it normal after a few hundred 100 miles to need to adjust the headset. When I got the bike it was find and I never made and adjustment until maybe a few months ago. This was of course due to the headset bearing going bad and it was a very small adjustment.

I have 20,000 miles on the bike and of course the headset. I don't normally ride in the rain but sometimes I have gotten caught in a downpour. A few times I have road with a light rain and of course the usual wet conditions. Does that seem enough to cause a headset to go this bad? Also maybe should I each winter take the bike apart and clean and re-lube everything. In other words not like a tune up but remove derailleurs and clean them and re-install? To me that seems a bit much as I am one of those that if it is not broke don't fix it. But I do know cyclist will do this so seat post will not get seize and such. What about the bearings in my hubs I have Shimano 32 hole ultegra hubs that seem to spin absolutely fine no drag or any issues?

Being a guitar repairman/luthier I am pretty conservative and sometimes guitars want to do things that I say they need leave alone till it causes a problem. No need to replace frets if you can dress them and the guitar will play fine. Obviously at some point you run out of material and then new frets.

Deacon Mark

That type of bearing shouldn't need any adjustment after
once set up properly.

Steel bearing case in aluminum cup is the same problem as
aluminum cup in titanium frame, albeit less reactive. Yes,
anti-seize paste where dissimilar metals touch. Or grease.
Or something. Adding water (or humidity) between them makes
a battery with the results you saw.

Wouldn't hurt to open the bearing seals to ensure they are
filled with grease. If not, do that before popping the seals
back on. And I assume you know this but I'll write it
anyway: press the cups in place before you drop in the
bearings (don't press on bearings).

Andrew I appreciate you taking care of the deacon. We deacons are suppose to take care of the widows and orphans but sometimes other take care of us. I hope you are doing ok in the COVID up there north of me. Sometime I might make a pilgrimage to your shop. Seems like a nice place in a not so busy area. Around these parts right we have a pretty good spike of covid and it is not getting better. Pritzker is threating another shelter in place mandate, that is not going to sit well. Seems if you are in the restaurant business especially the non-fast food stuff it is almost a breaker. Bike shops around here seem to not carry a thing related to parts other the the most obvious. I hate to say it but I am pretty sure some of the mechanics could not build a wheel if had to are rebuild one. I think it is like the guitar business. I never deal with the local music stores, players who need serious repair just call me. I have to source all my stuff from specialty places. The local music shops
will change your strings sometimes do a set up and get it ok. But when you $7000 Gibson L5 needs new frets you got to go deeper to find the person who can do that.

Deacon Mark


You're not alone. My daughter and grandsons walk past
several Chicago bike shops to get halfway acceptable routine
tire & brake service. I have driven down to pick up a bike,
then back the next evening to drop it off, something like
700 miles all in over two nights, because there are things
modern bike shops do not understand and do not care to learn.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 3:05:34 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2020 4:42 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 4:09:15 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2020 2:56 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 12:28:35 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So today I decided to remove the headset and the cups. Wow the bottom cup indeed the bearing was galvanically corroded to the inside of the cup. The bearing came apart and I had to take a screw drive and drive out the side of the bearing that rest on the upper side of the lower cup. Cleaned the headtube up with rubbing alcohol and now just waiting for the new headset to be delivered. Per Andrew I bought some anti seize to press the cups in since it is a Ti frame. Then I got a 1/2 thread rod and 2 nuts with large fender washers to press the new headset in.

So now my lube question is when I assemble the Ritchey Headset as it is an external cup, I will drop the bearing in the cups. Normally I use white lithium grease but I bought a tube of marine grease. I am thinking i probably should use marine grease a better grade. I should grease the bearings on both sides as they sit in top and bottom correct? The rest is easy I just set the pre-load after I get the carbon plug in the steerer. That I know and generally should be no issue since I am duplicating everything the same. The question I have to this is that is it normal after a few hundred 100 miles to need to adjust the headset. When I got the bike it was find and I never made and adjustment until maybe a few months ago. This was of course due to the headset bearing going bad and it was a very small adjustment.

I have 20,000 miles on the bike and of course the headset. I don't normally ride in the rain but sometimes I have gotten caught in a downpour. A few times I have road with a light rain and of course the usual wet conditions. Does that seem enough to cause a headset to go this bad? Also maybe should I each winter take the bike apart and clean and re-lube everything. In other words not like a tune up but remove derailleurs and clean them and re-install? To me that seems a bit much as I am one of those that if it is not broke don't fix it. But I do know cyclist will do this so seat post will not get seize and such. What about the bearings in my hubs I have Shimano 32 hole ultegra hubs that seem to spin absolutely fine no drag or any issues?

Being a guitar repairman/luthier I am pretty conservative and sometimes guitars want to do things that I say they need leave alone till it causes a problem. No need to replace frets if you can dress them and the guitar will play fine. Obviously at some point you run out of material and then new frets.

Deacon Mark

That type of bearing shouldn't need any adjustment after
once set up properly.

Steel bearing case in aluminum cup is the same problem as
aluminum cup in titanium frame, albeit less reactive. Yes,
anti-seize paste where dissimilar metals touch. Or grease.
Or something. Adding water (or humidity) between them makes
a battery with the results you saw.

Wouldn't hurt to open the bearing seals to ensure they are
filled with grease. If not, do that before popping the seals
back on. And I assume you know this but I'll write it
anyway: press the cups in place before you drop in the
bearings (don't press on bearings).
Andrew I appreciate you taking care of the deacon. We deacons are suppose to take care of the widows and orphans but sometimes other take care of us. I hope you are doing ok in the COVID up there north of me. Sometime I might make a pilgrimage to your shop. Seems like a nice place in a not so busy area. Around these parts right we have a pretty good spike of covid and it is not getting better. Pritzker is threating another shelter in place mandate, that is not going to sit well. Seems if you are in the restaurant business especially the non-fast food stuff it is almost a breaker. Bike shops around here seem to not carry a thing related to parts other the the most obvious. I hate to say it but I am pretty sure some of the mechanics could not build a wheel if had to are rebuild one. I think it is like the guitar business. I never deal with the local music stores, players who need serious repair just call me. I have to source all my stuff from specialty places.. The local music shops
will change your strings sometimes do a set up and get it ok. But when you $7000 Gibson L5 needs new frets you got to go deeper to find the person who can do that.

Deacon Mark

You're not alone. My daughter and grandsons walk past
several Chicago bike shops to get halfway acceptable routine
tire & brake service. I have driven down to pick up a bike,
then back the next evening to drop it off, something like
700 miles all in over two nights, because there are things
modern bike shops do not understand and do not care to learn.

I hope you charge mileage. Also, I think you need a different car: https://www.velofix.com/app/uploads/...es-Van-Pic.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/12/2020 5:57 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 3:05:34 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2020 4:42 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Thursday, November 12, 2020 at 4:09:15 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/12/2020 2:56 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 12:28:35 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/10/2020 11:17 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 11:07:35 AM UTC-6, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 8:14:40 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 8:06 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 7:50:44 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/9/2020 7:23 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:54 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:10:06 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 9:13:51 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Quick question on my Habanero Team Issue headset. My bike is riding wonderful now have 20,000 miles on it in a bit of 3. 5 years. I decide to clean the headset and the bearings. It was fine but a rust developing in the bearings and surfaces. I don't normally ride in the rain but it gets wet at times. I took the top one completely out and cleaned it is seems fine. The bottom was a a bit worse and I cleaned it up but I actually did not remove the bearing itself. I must have take the seal off only maybe it is different I could see the ball bearings in a ring. I got it clean and back on seems to be fine but to me ( a perfectionist mechanic) I would like the bearings to roll a bit smoother.

It is a Ritchey Headset and Ritchey WCS fork with external cup 1 1/8 not integrated. I am have not worked directly with the RItchey Full External types. Can you replace the bearings and maybe a place to get them. I could not see a size on the top when I took it out to clean. It is fine only bottom one a bit rough,

Finally just so I have your thought. I tighten the preload and all works fine assuming I did what correct. Turns fine and no binding other than not as smooth rolling I can sort of feel. If the pre-load is correct should the be any play at all in the headset? If I apply the front brake and try to rock the bike I get the slightest of movement I can feel at the bottom cup. It is not any more that on my other bike but wonder if there should be any at all. When I mean small movement I mean just a touch, that could be within specs since they are two separate pieces coming together.

To follow up and set another 1mm space on top and manage to get the headset tighter. No real play now so many that is taken care of. So my question on is if any of you on your bike can move the spacers by hand as they sit on the steering tube. Before I made the final adjustment I could move the space by turning them with my hand not applying to much pressure. Now after the adjustment I find I can still turn the spacers underneath the stem but it is much harder now. Seems turning the bars are fine no binding or resistance.

Since this is just the steering of the bike and not something that is going round in circles ore even turning to a huge degree maybe I am being OCD about this completely.

Deacon Mark
ANY rust at all warrants the replacement of the headset.
A whole new headset it $59 not complaining but I think I can just replace the bearings in the external cups right. They should come out. The top did but not the bottom. Mark Hickey from Habanero seems say I just need to get new bearings.
Headsets are lightly loaded except under heavy braking so pitted lower races in general are not a danger. But they CAN cause an accident because under hard braking if you lock a ball in a rust pit and hit an angular bump it might not self correct. I had a similar case 3 or 4 years ago when I had over-tightened the headset without realizing it and when I was looking the other way I ran over a root protruding under the road surface and the steering did not self correct and I went down in a heap. I thought I was OK but when I returned to that area later I couldn't even tell you where it happened until a friend came out and spray painted where those roots were pushing up the rad surface.


Do most steel and Titanium frames that have a standard headtubes that use external cups have the same specs for outside and inside headtube dimensions? I assume they do since the headsets are sold separately. What do they tend to be? The outside diameter of m tube is about 40mm. I did not measure the inside but the headset cups are 30.4 inside diameter. Does that sound correct?

Deacon Mark

It's a Habanero Nuevo, right?
Standard OS external headset:

http://habcycles.com/techstuf.html#tapered

Yours is not 'weird' of which there are many.
Sealed-cartridge headsets start about $40
Andrew I promise to leave you alone just tell me this headset will work fine a just press it in.
https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wc...adless-headset

Deacon Mark

Happy to help.
Yes, that's right. Get the OS 1-1/8" format.

Get a packet of anti-seize paste (looks like a ketchup
packet, $1 at an auto parts store) and smear it where
aluminum and titanium will touch:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/PARDOOX.JPG
Ok, more questions and thank you Andrew a bike wizard! My fork is a Ritchey WCS with what is called and integrated crown race. The head set I think comes with a cap at the end that is crown race or set against the bottom cup bearing. Will I still use this and set the fork in or leave out the last part since the fork is already integrated?

Deacon mark
You just need a HS with a 45 degree contact angle on the lower bearing. https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/...urance_Company No crown race/base plate needed. Are the bearings pressed into your existing headset or can you just pull them out and replace them? In other words, do you need a whole new headset?

-- Jay Beattie
I got a whole new headset. This is an external bearing headset. The bottom cup will be pressed into the frame, then set bearing in the cup with the 45 degree angle up in the cup. Then the flat bearing surface sits on top of the fork's integrated crown race. That part is not a a 45 degree angle as such but I am assuming the fork, having alread built in 45 degree angle avoid contact with the bearing accept at the very outside where it sits. I hope that makes sense a picture is worth 1000 words
Deacon Mark

Take a good close look at all those parts, test fit the
bearing on each side before final assembly because I think
you just described upside-down-and-backwards which is not
recommended (!)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

So today I decided to remove the headset and the cups. Wow the bottom cup indeed the bearing was galvanically corroded to the inside of the cup. The bearing came apart and I had to take a screw drive and drive out the side of the bearing that rest on the upper side of the lower cup. Cleaned the headtube up with rubbing alcohol and now just waiting for the new headset to be delivered. Per Andrew I bought some anti seize to press the cups in since it is a Ti frame. Then I got a 1/2 thread rod and 2 nuts with large fender washers to press the new headset in.

So now my lube question is when I assemble the Ritchey Headset as it is an external cup, I will drop the bearing in the cups. Normally I use white lithium grease but I bought a tube of marine grease. I am thinking i probably should use marine grease a better grade. I should grease the bearings on both sides as they sit in top and bottom correct? The rest is easy I just set the pre-load after I get the carbon plug in the steerer. That I know and generally should be no issue since I am duplicating everything the same. The question I have to this is that is it normal after a few hundred 100 miles to need to adjust the headset. When I got the bike it was find and I never made and adjustment until maybe a few months ago. This was of course due to the headset bearing going bad and it was a very small adjustment.

I have 20,000 miles on the bike and of course the headset. I don't normally ride in the rain but sometimes I have gotten caught in a downpour. A few times I have road with a light rain and of course the usual wet conditions. Does that seem enough to cause a headset to go this bad? Also maybe should I each winter take the bike apart and clean and re-lube everything. In other words not like a tune up but remove derailleurs and clean them and re-install? To me that seems a bit much as I am one of those that if it is not broke don't fix it. But I do know cyclist will do this so seat post will not get seize and such. What about the bearings in my hubs I have Shimano 32 hole ultegra hubs that seem to spin absolutely fine no drag or any issues?

Being a guitar repairman/luthier I am pretty conservative and sometimes guitars want to do things that I say they need leave alone till it causes a problem. No need to replace frets if you can dress them and the guitar will play fine. Obviously at some point you run out of material and then new frets.

Deacon Mark

That type of bearing shouldn't need any adjustment after
once set up properly.

Steel bearing case in aluminum cup is the same problem as
aluminum cup in titanium frame, albeit less reactive. Yes,
anti-seize paste where dissimilar metals touch. Or grease.
Or something. Adding water (or humidity) between them makes
a battery with the results you saw.

Wouldn't hurt to open the bearing seals to ensure they are
filled with grease. If not, do that before popping the seals
back on. And I assume you know this but I'll write it
anyway: press the cups in place before you drop in the
bearings (don't press on bearings).
Andrew I appreciate you taking care of the deacon. We deacons are suppose to take care of the widows and orphans but sometimes other take care of us. I hope you are doing ok in the COVID up there north of me. Sometime I might make a pilgrimage to your shop. Seems like a nice place in a not so busy area. Around these parts right we have a pretty good spike of covid and it is not getting better. Pritzker is threating another shelter in place mandate, that is not going to sit well. Seems if you are in the restaurant business especially the non-fast food stuff it is almost a breaker. Bike shops around here seem to not carry a thing related to parts other the the most obvious. I hate to say it but I am pretty sure some of the mechanics could not build a wheel if had to are rebuild one. I think it is like the guitar business. I never deal with the local music stores, players who need serious repair just call me. I have to source all my stuff from specialty places. The local music shop
s
will change your strings sometimes do a set up and get it ok. But when you $7000 Gibson L5 needs new frets you got to go deeper to find the person who can do that.

Deacon Mark

You're not alone. My daughter and grandsons walk past
several Chicago bike shops to get halfway acceptable routine
tire & brake service. I have driven down to pick up a bike,
then back the next evening to drop it off, something like
700 miles all in over two nights, because there are things
modern bike shops do not understand and do not care to learn.

I hope you charge mileage. Also, I think you need a different car: https://www.velofix.com/app/uploads/...es-Van-Pic.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.



Back when I was drove an MGB, the radio ads said what's
important is 'fun per gallon' Still sounds good to me.

I just did that a few weeks ago with a Bianchi hybrid in he
back seat and a fixie in the front:

http://www.joescorvairgarage.com/wp-...urbo-Trunk.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971