cyclism scandal will make it harder for armstrong

On 3 Jul 2006 07:08:56 -0700, "Bob" wrote, in part:

I think it's important to remember that the riders in question were
*not* ejected by the TdF officials. The riders were suspended by their
own teams in accordance with that section of the ProTour ethics code
that says riders who are the targets of criminal investigations may not
compete in ProTour sanctioned events. IMO such a "guilty until proven
innocent" clause has no place in something called an ethics code
because the chances of abuse are far too great but anyway, the TdF is
simply following their own rules by not allowing the teams to replace
those riders.

I often read of police officers, politicians, judges, teachers and
buearucrats being suspended with pay while investigations are being
conducted. Even when those investigations could result in criminal
charges being laid.
--
zk

Zoot Katz wrote:
On 3 Jul 2006 07:08:56 -0700, "Bob" wrote, in part:

I think it's important to remember that the riders in question were
*not* ejected by the TdF officials. The riders were suspended by their
own teams in accordance with that section of the ProTour ethics code
that says riders who are the targets of criminal investigations may not
compete in ProTour sanctioned events. IMO such a "guilty until proven
innocent" clause has no place in something called an ethics code
because the chances of abuse are far too great but anyway, the TdF is
simply following their own rules by not allowing the teams to replace
those riders.

I often read of police officers, politicians, judges, teachers and
buearucrats being suspended with pay while investigations are being
conducted. Even when those investigations could result in criminal
charges being laid.

My opinion is first that they have totally gone nuts over doping charges
and since the French are such sore losers they would probably find
"Doping" even if someone took a cold or sinus medication. The tests are
so sensitive now that if you walk past a house where someone is smoking
pot and get a good whiff or two you might test positive on a
pre-employment drug test.
I think we just have a case of absurdly over zealous drug testing.
Why would a top contender like Jan Ullrich take anything to jeopardize
his being in the Tour? He obviously knew they were out to get people and
if I get my information right it was the Spanish (?) who were in charge
of testing.
With the testing being able to detect parts per trillion these days,
someone could test positive for taking a Pseudofed tablet a week before.
Technology? Progress? Abuse of technology?

Bill Baka

wrote in message
oups.com...

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Kevan Smith" wrote in message
...
I have nothing really to say other than I think "cyclism" is one of the
dumbest words ever. Bicyclism is at least a real word, but cyclism is
just some made up marketing bull****. I wonder how many Escalade
commercials will be on during Tour coverage this year.

Kevan is an idiot (beside being a scoundrel and a jackass) and you listen
to
him/her at your peril. Only cyclist is correct; anything else is bonkers.
Bicyclism - what an asshole! Kevan is the biggest bull ****ter ever to
infect RBM.

Now if I did this to you, you would accuse me of being a stalket, a
leech and a sponge, but you exempt yourself from the rules that you
expect others to play by

No, I will not stay on this idiot (or any other idiot) for more than a few
posts. But you stay on me forever. That is why you are a stalker, a leech
and a sponge. Get a life!

Kevan is really a lesbian consort of Little Meow. I hate all these freaking
idiots who use false (user) names instead of their real names.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Kevan Smith" wrote in message
. 170.88...
"Edward Dolan" wrote in
news
Kevan is an idiot (beside being a scoundrel and a jackass) and you
listen to him/her at your peril. Only cyclist is correct; anything
else is bonkers. Bicyclism - what an asshole! Kevan is the biggest
bull ****ter ever to infect RBM.

I'm a lesbian, but you're the type of man a depraved abomination like me
could go for!

What's the matter, Little Meow not good enough for you to **** anymore?

BTW, bicyclism is a real English word that means "the art of riding a
bicycle."

The g.d English are no longer the arbiters of the English language. They
lost that when they ceased to be Great Britain. They are now nothing but a
tiny kingdom by the sea about on the level of Ireland. We here in America
now determine what is correct English and what is not. That is what comes of
being the only super power left in the world.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Zoot Katz wrote:

I often read of police officers, politicians, judges, teachers and
buearucrats being suspended with pay while investigations are being
conducted. Even when those investigations could result in criminal
charges being laid.


When one hear of this you know that the accused is being treated as
innocent until proven guilty. In their desperation to combat the
recurring doping scandals in cycling, the ProTour has adopted an ethics
code that effectively trashes the presumption of innocence. As much as
I admire their intent to crack down on cheats, I don't agree that the
way to do that is to adopt a "guilty until proven innocent" ethics
code. Of course, I doubt that what I'd propose instead would be
universally popular-

1- Establish clear commonsense guidelines for impartial split sample
drug testing.
2- Impose mandatory weekly drug tests for every ProTour rider.
3- Impose a one year time limit on the disciplinary process, i.e.,
discipline for a positive drug test on July 01, 2006 *must* be imposed
by July 01, 2007.
4- A first offense would be an automatic two year suspension unless the
rider cooperated fully and identified where and how the doping took
place. Failure to do that would make the penalty a four year
suspension. If the positive test occurred during the racing season any
and all victories/titles won in that year would be forfeited.
5- A second offense would result in a lifetime ban. Period.
6- Anyone found to have assisted in the doping would be banned from
cycling for life.
7- Anyone proven to have had knowledge of the doping that did not
report the doping would be suspended from pro cycling for one year.

The penalties would be harsh but when the stakes are high, penalties
must be harsh to deter rule breaking.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Edward Dolan wrote:


Zzzzzzz

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

People must not do things for fun. We are not here for fun.
There is no reference to fun in any Act of Parliament.

Bob wrote:
Zoot Katz wrote:
I often read of police officers, politicians, judges, teachers and
buearucrats being suspended with pay while investigations are being
conducted. Even when those investigations could result in criminal
charges being laid.


When one hear of this you know that the accused is being treated as
innocent until proven guilty. In their desperation to combat the
recurring doping scandals in cycling, the ProTour has adopted an ethics
code that effectively trashes the presumption of innocence. As much as
I admire their intent to crack down on cheats, I don't agree that the
way to do that is to adopt a "guilty until proven innocent" ethics
code. Of course, I doubt that what I'd propose instead would be
universally popular-

1- Establish clear commonsense guidelines for impartial split sample
drug testing.
2- Impose mandatory weekly drug tests for every ProTour rider.
3- Impose a one year time limit on the disciplinary process, i.e.,
discipline for a positive drug test on July 01, 2006 *must* be imposed
by July 01, 2007.
4- A first offense would be an automatic two year suspension unless the
rider cooperated fully and identified where and how the doping took
place. Failure to do that would make the penalty a four year
suspension. If the positive test occurred during the racing season any
and all victories/titles won in that year would be forfeited.
5- A second offense would result in a lifetime ban. Period.
6- Anyone found to have assisted in the doping would be banned from
cycling for life.
7- Anyone proven to have had knowledge of the doping that did not
report the doping would be suspended from pro cycling for one year.

The penalties would be harsh but when the stakes are high, penalties
must be harsh to deter rule breaking.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

I agree with Bob's logic but what does this have to do with making it
harder for Lance Armstrong? He has already quit while on top.
As for the rest, the testing is getting too sensitive when it can pick
up parts per trillion, where you could test positive because of some air
you inhaled or possibly tainted food from a restaurant, etc.
ProTour does seem to have instituted the "Guilty until proven innocent."
policy. Proving innocence is, at best, very hard if not impossible.
Bill Baka

Edward Dolan wrote:

What's the matter, Little Meow not good enough for you to ****
anymore?

You're somewhat amusing (in small doses) and quite prolific (huge doses,
distributed freely); why add needlessly crude to your repertoire?

Sorni

On 3 Jul 2006 15:44:16 -0700, "Bob" wrote:

Zoot Katz wrote:

I often read of police officers, politicians, judges, teachers and
buearucrats being suspended with pay while investigations are being
conducted. Even when those investigations could result in criminal
charges being laid.


When one hear of this you know that the accused is being treated as
innocent until proven guilty. In their desperation to combat the
recurring doping scandals in cycling, the ProTour has adopted an ethics
code that effectively trashes the presumption of innocence. As much as
I admire their intent to crack down on cheats, I don't agree that the
way to do that is to adopt a "guilty until proven innocent" ethics
code.

I'm failing to see the difference between this situation and the
examples I've mentioned. The riders are only suspended from
competition until they've had their day in court or whatever. Until
that time they're as innocent as they claim. They're still on the
team, they've still got contracts. If they are found guilty of doping
then they're suspended from the sport. They lose their license for
the stipulated period.
--
zk

"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
Edward Dolan wrote:

What's the matter, Little Meow not good enough for you to ****
anymore?

Sorni is not editing properly. He should have included what the above was in
response to in order for anyone to make any sense out of it.

You're somewhat amusing (in small doses) and quite prolific (huge doses,
distributed freely); why add needlessly crude to your repertoire?

Sorni

Little Meow and her good buddy Kali are the coarsest females ever to infest
Usenet. We should not let them get away with their vulgarity since it goes
against the natural grain of what it is to be a woman. They are perverted
and I mean to point that out to all and sundry. Not every one in the world
appreciates sluts, whores, lesbians and bitch-witches. I would like to see
the two of them burned at the stake. Oh, for those good old Salem days!

We men are just naturally coarse and vulgar and women should NEVER seek to
compete with us in this arena. I simply can't stand a woman who is not a
lady. How about you?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota