A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Bike Share graveyard



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old December 7th 17, 06:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...



The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind roads
when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!". I do ride
through it even at night because it is the only way to get home from a
church meeting without a major detour. I ride with the ship brightly
lit, of course.

For the more squeamish ones there is the option to ride (not quite
legal) or push the bike over the narrow sidewalk on the left. However,
often somewhat scary-looking homeless people hang out there. Sometimes
they sleep under the bridge sections and if a pitbull charges you'd have
no way to escape.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #62  
Old December 7th 17, 07:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Bike Share graveyard

On Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 9:19:00 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 11:46 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-06 12:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 1:40:47 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-05 09:42, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 10:06:27 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 18:51, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/4/2017 7:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-04 16:23, John B. wrote:

Damn! You are making the public highways look better and
better.


They will never be better unless you remove the motor
vehicles from there. Or add segregated bikes paths like
they did he

https://goo.gl/maps/NBzpVUA58tq

That's not a segregated bike path. That's a shoulder on a
road. In most states it's not even considered part of the
roadway. I know lots of cyclists never leave the shoulder,
but that can bring its own problems, since legal protections
often exist only for those operating on the roadway.


Now go look for your glasses, put them on and take a peek again
but this time farther to the right. In case you still don't see
it I have zoomed it in for you here (but then please see an
optometrist before operating any vehicle):

https://goo.gl/maps/nreBX5Qc7eH2

Well, perhaps you should have posted that first, no?


No. Look at the first link. It is clearly visible and I posted it
to show how well the separation between road and bike path is done.
Also to show that this has bike lanes plus bike path, like other
roads in Folsom do. If you didn't see that bike path I suggest to
at least not operate a motor vehicle unless your vision has been
checked out.

It's not really that clear.Â* The separate path is in the shadow, ....



When mentioned as separate bike path in my text and still not seeing it
that should be of concern.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* ... and
the first thing that the viewer sees is the wide curb lane.



"But I didn't see it" is a common excuse after accidents. Got to pay
attention.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* ... BTW, it
just ends, right? And then it turns into an ordinary bike lane on
Natoma.


Not anymore. Google Maps is quite outdated in many areas and is often
years behind. There is a seamless bike path all the way into Folsom
Downtown. It later veers off the road and goes through fields, very
nicely built.

Folsom is rather fast in expanding their cycling infrastructure. From El
Dorado Hills several cycling facilities to pick from seamlessly go all
the way through into the core of Folsom, and then on from there.

The reward for them is that people like me leave a chunk of their
discretionary money in Folsom.


Also, it looks like the major shopping areas are accessible in the
usual ways -- on roads. I'm not seeing any separated paths around the
central mall-shopping area like the WalMart Supercenter. Riley has a
bike lane.Â* Bidwell has nothing.


Although I'd have no problem with that nice wide lane.


In the inner city there are roads but you can cycle on a parallel path
that goes past all the big box stores. For example, this is in the area
of your link:

https://goo.gl/maps/ddyaaRbJTLE2

Leads past Trader Joe's which carries delicious Italian farmer's bread.
If not interested in the stores one can take School Street which has
very little traffic. I never mind using non-busy streets but I do mind
busy ones.

Outside the city core, for example, towards Home Depot, we have bike
lanes. I cycled down there yesterday to pick up supplies for my
home-brewing. Very pleasant ride, almost all on bike paths while in
Folsom. I just had to schlepp the load back up the hill and because
pressed for time had to use busy Green Valley Road.

Oh, and the supply place is partly under construction because they will
open a taproom in spring. Yeehaw!


It looks like most of the physically separated lanes go through
residential areas. The Humbug-Willow Creek Trail does appear to drop
you next to a Peets, so that's worth something.Â* It's better than
Starbucks. But you're going to have to ride on the road if you want
to go to Jimboy's Tacos. Egads!



I don't visit any of those chain restaurant places. If you want that you
can go to Dos Coyotes Coffee where you can literally roll off the
Willow-Creek bike path and plop into a patio chair. In Folsom it is very
easy to prefer shops along bike paths.


Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* If you want a taco, you'll have to
risk your life on a road.Â* I hope its a good taco.


Isn't this good enough?

http://doscoyotes.com/

Right at the bike path. Same as others:

http://www.skipolinis.com/menu.php?l...ry=New_Entrees

https://igx.4sqi.net/img/general/wid...VQ5z85issU.jpg


http://www.mexquite.com/

http://www.backbistro.com/

http://www.folsomtaphouse.com/

And on and on. As you can see, plenty of bicycle-friendly choices. Or
you cycle a bit farther on the American River bike path with which
Willow-Creek connects, cross a cylist/hikers-only bridge and visit these
folks:

http://fairoaksbrewpub.com/


If I wanted to list the restaurants I can reach by bicycle, I'd have to
list every restaurant in town. That's because I'm not afraid to ride on
regular roads.

I used to lead a fun series of rides for our bike club: "Ethnic
Restaurant Ride." The scheme was we'd do a leisurely ride, typically
about 25 miles, and eat at some restaurant. Could be Syrian, Italian,
Jewish, Chinese, Mexican, Hungarian, whatever - it was a secret until we
arrived. We rode country roads, suburban roads, and/or city streets, and
I picked quiet routes as much as possible.

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all and there was plenty of room for the few cars
to pass us, but one novice on the ride was absolutely terrified. She'd
never ridden a four-lane before and she seemed to have it in her head
that it would be fatal.

I wonder if she'd been talking to Joerg.


Well, the moral of the story is that even in Folsom, the separate paths only go to certain places. https://www.folsom.ca.us/civicax/fil...x?blobid=17412

Any competent "transportational cyclist" (to quote SMS) has to be able to ride on the road. I'm certainly not picking my restaurants based on what is along a separate bike path.

Folsom has a lot of empty dirt and new development that allows for the creation of separated bike facilities -- and apparently a tax base willing to support them. In an old, dense urban area, throwing in a bunch of separated facilities is not usually an option. Personally, I avoid them, but I don't doubt that they are attractive to the roadaphobic. So if the people in Folsom like them, great.

I find Joerg's excitement about brewpubs on a bike path quaint. Beer is so passe here in the evil, dirty big city.

Passing a brewpub or growler fill on a bike is unavoidable in Portland. We go one step further -- we have pubs for bikes. https://tinyurl.com/y72hov6g (note Chris King taps). We have pubs that are bikes. http://pedalounge.com/ https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/b7...579e91da69.jpg

Bike shops that are pubs. http://tubulocity.com/?p=5608 Handmade bikes and beer. http://hopworksbeer.com/handmadebikeandbeerfest/ And yes, bike teams that are beer. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3084/...e86900b12..jpg So done.


-- Jay Beattie.
  #63  
Old December 7th 17, 07:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 2017-12-07 10:27, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

Well, the moral of the story is that even in Folsom, the separate
paths only go to certain places.
https://www.folsom.ca.us/civicax/fil...x?blobid=17412

Any competent "transportational cyclist" (to quote SMS) has to be
able to ride on the road.



It's got nothing to do with competency. It is about fun, comfort,
pleasantness, healthy air and other aspects of the ride. Just like we
rarely steer our cars into the city of Sacramento because that has
become a bit too hostile to visitors for my taste (fleecing via parking
fees and such). Poeple have choices.


... I'm certainly not picking my restaurants
based on what is along a separate bike path.


Many people out here do. For me, if there are several places of about
equal quality I generally prefer the ones reachable via bike facilities.
Same regarding being able to bring in the bike or at least have it
parked in view. Home Depot and Lowe's allow me to roll my bike through
the aisles. So I buy there. Walmart does not so I don't go there.


Folsom has a lot of empty dirt and new development that allows for
the creation of separated bike facilities -- and apparently a tax
base willing to support them. In an old, dense urban area, throwing
in a bunch of separated facilities is not usually an option.



It is, they did that in Folsom. They even did that in Sacramento. It
takes guts to cut a lane from car users (Freeport Boulevard in
Sacramento, for example).

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #64  
Old December 7th 17, 10:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 12/7/2017 12:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...



The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind roads
when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!".


I don't doubt that most cyclists refuse to ride there. Most cyclists in
America lack the knowledge and confidence to ride with real competence
on anything but a nearly empty road.

The thing is, if those cyclists were to take a Cycling Savvy class,
riding that or something very much like it would be part of the learning
experience. They'd see the teachers and the other students do it with no
trouble, and they would do it themselves with no trouble. They would
become empowered to ride where they needed to ride, and not to wait for
the Good Fairy to come and build a kiddie path for them.

Cyclists do have full rights to the road, including roads like that. If
everyone would learn that and behave accordingly, we'd be much better off.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #65  
Old December 7th 17, 10:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 2017-12-07 13:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 12:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...



The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind
roads when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks
like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!".


I don't doubt that most cyclists refuse to ride there. Most cyclists in
America lack the knowledge and confidence to ride with real competence
on anything but a nearly empty road.


Or they know or met one cyclist (in my case several) who got seriously
hit out there. The worst one needed years to get back into the saddle
because of injuries. She ended up under a full-size pickup truck.


The thing is, if those cyclists were to take a Cycling Savvy class,
riding that or something very much like it would be part of the learning
experience. They'd see the teachers and the other students do it with no
trouble, and they would do it themselves with no trouble. They would
become empowered to ride where they needed to ride, and not to wait for
the Good Fairy to come and build a kiddie path for them.


It would make no difference whatsoever.


Cyclists do have full rights to the road, including roads like that. If
everyone would learn that and behave accordingly, we'd be much better off.


Would, could, should. The usual. Not gonna happen when one group sits on
a saddle in the open and the other behind a mass of steel.

The excuses "I did not see him" or "He suddenly swerved in front of me"
usually gets them off the hook unless excessive speed, drugs or booze
was involved.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #66  
Old December 8th 17, 01:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 12/7/2017 4:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 13:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 12:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different
ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...


The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind
roads when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks
like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!".


I don't doubt that most cyclists refuse to ride there. Most cyclists in
America lack the knowledge and confidence to ride with real competence
on anything but a nearly empty road.


Or they know or met one cyclist (in my case several) who got seriously
hit out there. The worst one needed years to get back into the saddle
because of injuries. She ended up under a full-size pickup truck.


Isn't it funny? People hear of one person who got hurt riding a bike -
about half the time by doing something illegal or dumb - and they say
riding is very dangerous.

At last count, I've known 9 people who died while riding in or on motor
vehicles, and more injured that way. I don't think that's unusual. Yet
there's very little fear of driving or riding in motor vehicles.

The thing is, if those cyclists were to take a Cycling Savvy class,
riding that or something very much like it would be part of the learning
experience. They'd see the teachers and the other students do it with no
trouble, and they would do it themselves with no trouble. They would
become empowered to ride where they needed to ride, and not to wait for
the Good Fairy to come and build a kiddie path for them.


It would make no difference whatsoever.


If they are people like you who already know everything, it might not
make any difference. But people who are willing to learn can and do gain
knowledge, confidence and empowerment. See
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2011/05/i-am-no-road-warrior/

And it does them practical good. Among other things, it teaches them to
recognize hazards and avoid them. This is a story about a bike lane that
didn't work, but knowledge that did.
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2017/12/the-...saved-my-life/

Cyclists do have full rights to the road, including roads like that. If
everyone would learn that and behave accordingly, we'd be much better
off.


Would, could, should. The usual. Not gonna happen when one group sits on
a saddle in the open and the other behind a mass of steel.

The excuses "I did not see him" or "He suddenly swerved in front of me"
usually gets them off the hook unless excessive speed, drugs or booze
was involved.


That's your usual shtick, Joerg - imagining some catastrophe that MAY
happen (especially if you don't know how to lessen the risk) and
treating it as if it's a 100% certainty.

It must baffle you that I'm still alive after all those decades of
riding on roads!

(Well, no, I take that back. I don't believe you think that deeply.)


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #67  
Old December 8th 17, 01:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 2017-12-07 16:26, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 4:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 13:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 12:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different
ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...


The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind
roads when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks
like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!".

I don't doubt that most cyclists refuse to ride there. Most cyclists in
America lack the knowledge and confidence to ride with real competence
on anything but a nearly empty road.


Or they know or met one cyclist (in my case several) who got seriously
hit out there. The worst one needed years to get back into the saddle
because of injuries. She ended up under a full-size pickup truck.


Isn't it funny? People hear of one person who got hurt riding a bike -
about half the time by doing something illegal or dumb - and they say
riding is very dangerous.


Nonsense. You tend towards premature conclusions while knowing zero in
details. _All_ cases were not at fault. Of the most severely hurt
(required hospital stay band had longer term consequences) two were
rear-ended in the lane and one hit by a vehicle making an unsafe turn
right in front of her.


At last count, I've known 9 people who died while riding in or on motor
vehicles, and more injured that way. I don't think that's unusual. Yet
there's very little fear of driving or riding in motor vehicles.


Per mile cyclists get injured more often than motorists.


The thing is, if those cyclists were to take a Cycling Savvy class,
riding that or something very much like it would be part of the learning
experience. They'd see the teachers and the other students do it with no
trouble, and they would do it themselves with no trouble. They would
become empowered to ride where they needed to ride, and not to wait for
the Good Fairy to come and build a kiddie path for them.


It would make no difference whatsoever.


If they are people like you who already know everything, it might not
make any difference. But people who are willing to learn can and do gain
knowledge, confidence and empowerment. See
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2011/05/i-am-no-road-warrior/

And it does them practical good. Among other things, it teaches them to
recognize hazards and avoid them. This is a story about a bike lane that
didn't work, but knowledge that did.
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2017/12/the-...saved-my-life/


Until they meet that soused guy in the old pickup truck coming up from
behind, hell-bent on showing them who is boss in "his" lane.


Cyclists do have full rights to the road, including roads like that. If
everyone would learn that and behave accordingly, we'd be much better
off.


Would, could, should. The usual. Not gonna happen when one group sits
on a saddle in the open and the other behind a mass of steel.

The excuses "I did not see him" or "He suddenly swerved in front of
me" usually gets them off the hook unless excessive speed, drugs or
booze was involved.


That's your usual shtick, Joerg - imagining some catastrophe that MAY
happen (especially if you don't know how to lessen the risk) and
treating it as if it's a 100% certainty.

It must baffle you that I'm still alive after all those decades of
riding on roads!

(Well, no, I take that back. I don't believe you think that deeply.)


As I've said before, I am talking about facts. I was _in_ court in such
a case, on the witness stand. The situation was quite clear, the guy
brutally pushed a cyclist from the lane into the ditch with his truck
when he saw that oncoming traffic got too close. And yes, the lane was
taken because it was unsafe to pass there with oncoming traffic. The
perp was still let off the hook.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #68  
Old December 8th 17, 05:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Bike Share graveyard

SMS SMS

are there use able stats on the Valley's bike sharing ?

we can use for comparison to Pigville ?

  #69  
Old December 8th 17, 07:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Bike Share graveyard

On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 13:18:49 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-12-07 13:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 12:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...


The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind
roads when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks
like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!".


I don't doubt that most cyclists refuse to ride there. Most cyclists in
America lack the knowledge and confidence to ride with real competence
on anything but a nearly empty road.


Or they know or met one cyclist (in my case several) who got seriously
hit out there. The worst one needed years to get back into the saddle
because of injuries. She ended up under a full-size pickup truck.


My wife knew a woman that was killed stepping off the bus. She stepped
off and was hit by a motorcycle, fell and hit her head on the curb.
Busses are dangerious!

One of my gunners when I was at Enewetak Atoll had to jump out of
three airplanes. Proving that Aircraft are unsafe.

My grandmother knew a fellow that was killed when a horse ran away.
Horses are unsafe.

I bought a new pair of shoes and got a blister. The blister became
infected and I had to have part of my little toe amputated. Shoes are
dangerious.

Both my grandfathers died in bed thus proving that beds are
dangerious.

Is all that ridiculous? Certainly it is. Just as are your posts about
the dangerious roads that you are forced to ride over.

I would remind you that Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder results not
only from a single traumatic experience but also from continued
exposure to what an individual views as danger.

If you continue riding on those roads that you just know are so
dangerious you may find yourself experiencing one or another of the
following symptoms: Flashbacks, Upsetting dreams, even physical
reactions to a flash back.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #70  
Old December 8th 17, 04:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bike Share graveyard

On 12/7/2017 7:44 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 16:26, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 4:18 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 13:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/7/2017 12:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-12-07 09:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]

One time I found out the day before the ride that the restaurant I'd
picked out had to close due to an emergency. (a gas leak - lucky it
didn't explode!) So I had to quickly throw together a different
ride. It
required about a mile on a downhill stretch of a new four lane road.
Traffic wasn't bad at all ...


The last five words are the key. Of course most riders do not mind
roads when traffic is light. However, they do hesitate when it looks
like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/yX2ts3QeNeF2

Nearly every cyclist I know in town, and it's quite a few, refuses to
ride through there. The common response it "That is crazy!".

I don't doubt that most cyclists refuse to ride there. Most cyclists in
America lack the knowledge and confidence to ride with real competence
on anything but a nearly empty road.


Or they know or met one cyclist (in my case several) who got seriously
hit out there. The worst one needed years to get back into the saddle
because of injuries. She ended up under a full-size pickup truck.


Isn't it funny? People hear of one person who got hurt riding a bike -
about half the time by doing something illegal or dumb - and they say
riding is very dangerous.


Nonsense. You tend towards premature conclusions while knowing zero in
details. _All_ cases were not at fault. Of the most severely hurt
(required hospital stay band had longer term consequences) two were
rear-ended in the lane and one hit by a vehicle making an unsafe turn
right in front of her.


At last count, I've known 9 people who died while riding in or on motor
vehicles, and more injured that way. I don't think that's unusual. Yet
there's very little fear of driving or riding in motor vehicles.


Per mile cyclists get injured more often than motorists.


And per mile, driving is FAR more dangerous than riding buses. So why
are you not yelling about driving being dangerous?

More to the point: Per mile, walking is more dangerous than bicycling.
This has shown up in data for the U.S. as well in many other countries.
Why are you not yelling about walking being dangerous?



The thing is, if those cyclists were to take a Cycling Savvy class,
riding that or something very much like it would be part of the
learning
experience. They'd see the teachers and the other students do it
with no
trouble, and they would do it themselves with no trouble. They would
become empowered to ride where they needed to ride, and not to wait for
the Good Fairy to come and build a kiddie path for them.

It would make no difference whatsoever.


If they are people like you who already know everything, it might not
make any difference. But people who are willing to learn can and do gain
knowledge, confidence and empowerment. See
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2011/05/i-am-no-road-warrior/

And it does them practical good. Among other things, it teaches them to
recognize hazards and avoid them. This is a story about a bike lane that
didn't work, but knowledge that did.
http://cyclingsavvy.org/2017/12/the-...saved-my-life/


Until they meet that soused guy in the old pickup truck coming up from
behind, hell-bent on showing them who is boss in "his" lane.


What a fearful fantasy life you lead!

Joerg, people have been hit from behind in the bike lanes you love. More
frequently, people in bike lanes have been run over by turning vehicles,
as the person in the second link above _almost_ was. She was able to
avoid that NOT because there was a bike lane. She was able to avoid that
because she had learned something important in a cycling class.

So why does that anecdote not register with you? Why are your anecdotes
more important?

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Singapore bike share? Frank Krygowski[_4_] Techniques 4 July 28th 17 02:01 AM
Cincy Bike Share, now Red Bike, getting close Garrison Hilliard Techniques 3 September 6th 14 04:03 AM
Share your gps tracks from bike rides [email protected] Rides 3 September 6th 05 02:09 AM
Share your gps tracks from bike rides - now also supports gpx [email protected] Techniques 0 September 2nd 05 04:26 AM
Haig Concrete Graveyard Film uniryder777 Unicycling 4 January 19th 04 05:14 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.