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Walmart bike good enough?



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 19th 07, 04:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Dana Myers
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Posts: 53
Default Walmart bike good enough?

Dane Buson wrote:
Dana Myers wrote:


I don't own a CF bike either, so what? Do you really
have people that criticize you for not owning a CF bike?


Oh, I've met them. Evidently, I'm not a serious rider because I don't
ride CF bikes (steel is heavy!). That and the people telling me to get
a powertap wheel.


Sigh. I've had at least one well-intentioned piece of advice that
alloy frames are too harsh, but it was from a person that doesn't
actually ride. I should have asked which magazine they'd been
reading.

[...]

However, equating an "expensive" bike to "sugar candy",
describing an "expensive" bike as pure vanity, sure sounds
like sour grapes to me.


Well, to be fair they often are (though certainly not always).


Well, I'm not sure how much *pure* vanity, but it's true,
as the price point goes up, the vanity margin increases, and,
at some point, effectively overwhelms everything else.

Tom never actually defined what "expensive" was; at moderate
levels of expense, the value can be quite good. At high levels
of expense, it's not about value at all.

But
that's no different than any other form of transportation. i.e., After
a certain point you are not spending for core functionality but rather
for bells, whistles and 'prettiness'. And the dividing line for that is
of course subjective.


.... and thus we agree.

There, was that wishy-washy enough for you? ;-)


Heh.

"Sugar candy" isn't the same as "not something that suits my needs",
hence my comment.


I just took it as part of Tom's love of word play and rhymes. Though I
might be wrong and it could certainly be taken that way.


It's difficult to tell without the nuance of interpersonal
communication. I could easily be quite mistaken, my apologies
if so.

Cheers -
Dana

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  #32  
Old September 19th 07, 08:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Zoot Katz
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Posts: 941
Default Walmart bike good enough?

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:27:22 -0700, Dana Myers
wrote:

"Sugar candy" isn't the same as "not something that suits my needs",
hence my comment.


I just took it as part of Tom's love of word play and rhymes. Though I
might be wrong and it could certainly be taken that way.


It's difficult to tell without the nuance of interpersonal
communication. I could easily be quite mistaken, my apologies
if so.


I do call those bikes "spun sugar".
Reason being, they're usually treated like they'd melt in the rain.

Tom, Dane and me ride in a lot of rain.

The only times I ever recall noticing carbon fibre bikes passing me
is when they're hanging off car.
--
zk
  #33  
Old September 19th 07, 09:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default Walmart bike good enough?

In article ,
Dana Myers writes:
Dane Buson wrote:
Dana Myers wrote:
Tom Keats wrote:

I figure the real benefits of expensive bikes
are ... they're pretty. And that's okay. It
can be nice to possess something of quality and
aesthetic beauty. If it inspires a rider to ride,
that's fine 'n dandy, just like sugar candy.


[snip]

However, equating an "expensive" bike to "sugar candy",
describing an "expensive" bike as pure vanity, sure sounds
like sour grapes to me.


I thought the context of my statements was quite clearly
nonjudgmental.

"Sugar candy" isn't the same as
"not something that suits my needs", hence my comment.


"Fine 'n dandy just like sugar candy" is just an old,
general-purpose cliche, like "I'm so hungry I could eat an
ox," or "There's not enough room in here to swing a cat."

I don't condone cruelty to cats, but I wouldn't mind
barbecuing an ox. I guess it would have to be marinated
somehow. And I'd need some help moving it around.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #34  
Old September 19th 07, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Dana Myers
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Posts: 53
Default Walmart bike good enough?

Tom Keats wrote:

I don't condone cruelty to cats, but I wouldn't mind
barbecuing an ox. I guess it would have to be marinated
somehow.


Marinated, or injected with cheese and deep-fried, perhaps?
Just be careful where you pour out the grease afterwards.

(Dunno if you watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force :-))

Cheers -
Dana

  #35  
Old September 19th 07, 07:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
rdclark[_2_]
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Posts: 26
Default Walmart bike good enough?

On Sep 17, 8:31 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

I figure the real benefits of expensive bikes
are ... they're pretty. And that's okay. It
can be nice to possess something of quality and
aesthetic beauty. If it inspires a rider to ride,
that's fine 'n dandy, just like sugar candy.


What's "expensive"?

Several years ago I invested about $2k in a titanium touring/
cyclocross frame set up with hand-built Mavic touring rims, Ultegra
parts, racks, and other components that would, in my estimation, yield
a comfortable, reliable daily commuter that could also serve for solo
centuries and multi-day tours. I liked the lightness and comfort of
the ti frame, and I hand-picked all the other parts for balance
between performance and economy, and to suit my personal preferences.

It's hard to imagine being happier with a bike than I've been with
this one, and over 25,000 miles later it's met all my expectations and
has needed no extraordinary maintenance. (I'm particularly happy with
the wheels.)

Is $2000 expensive? I thought it was at the time. I believed I was
indulging myself because I could afford to.

I don't think so now. There may be a point where more money doesn't
buy you anything of measurable worth, but $2000 isn't that point. I
believe that every dollar I spent on this bike is part of the palpable
experience of riding it every day.

(It has no carbon fiber parts, however.)

r

  #36  
Old September 22nd 07, 10:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 2,383
Default Walmart bike good enough?

In article , (Tom Keats)
wrote:

In article ,
Dana Myers writes:
Dane Buson wrote:
Dana Myers wrote:
Tom Keats wrote:

I figure the real benefits of expensive bikes
are ... they're pretty. And that's okay. It
can be nice to possess something of quality and
aesthetic beauty. If it inspires a rider to ride,
that's fine 'n dandy, just like sugar candy.


[snip]

However, equating an "expensive" bike to "sugar candy",
describing an "expensive" bike as pure vanity, sure sounds
like sour grapes to me.


I thought the context of my statements was quite clearly
nonjudgmental.

"Sugar candy" isn't the same as
"not something that suits my needs", hence my comment.


"Fine 'n dandy just like sugar candy" is just an old,
general-purpose cliche, like "I'm so hungry I could eat an
ox," or "There's not enough room in here to swing a cat."

I don't condone cruelty to cats, but I wouldn't mind
barbecuing an ox. I guess it would have to be marinated
somehow. And I'd need some help moving it around.


cheers,
Tom


Tom: you find the ox, I'll provide the barbeque pit.

--
Ryan Cousineau
http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
  #37  
Old September 23rd 07, 01:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default Walmart bike good enough?

In article ,
Ryan Cousineau writes:

"Fine 'n dandy just like sugar candy" is just an old,
general-purpose cliche, like "I'm so hungry I could eat an
ox," or "There's not enough room in here to swing a cat."

I don't condone cruelty to cats, but I wouldn't mind
barbecuing an ox. I guess it would have to be marinated
somehow. And I'd need some help moving it around.


....

Tom: you find the ox, I'll provide the barbeque pit.


Remember that scene in Apocolypse Now? Okay, that might've
been a water buffalo who was bled stupid and then had his
head swiftly lopped off.

I have it in mind to marinate the ox with an ad hoc
mixture of (gallons of) terryaki & sherry, and some
select spices & herbs. Maybe toss some hand-picked
field mushrooms into the brew for the last 10 minutes
of marination (to be gently sizzled separately, of
course, for on the side.)

The logistics are overwhelming.

"I'm so hungry I could eat an ox" really means:
"Just kick the horns off & wipe it's ass, and
serve it to me stadt!"

Nevertheless, I'd rather barbecue an ox than shoot
a kevlar bicycle tire with a gub. Tires are mostly
inedible.

I think sweet potato pie should make a good post-ox
dessert. Or baked rice pudding (with raisins.)


cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #38  
Old September 23rd 07, 04:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default Walmart bike good enough?

In article ,
Dana Myers writes:
Tom Keats wrote:

I don't condone cruelty to cats, but I wouldn't mind
barbecuing an ox. I guess it would have to be marinated
somehow.


Marinated, or injected with cheese and deep-fried, perhaps?
Just be careful where you pour out the grease afterwards.

(Dunno if you watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force :-))


No, but I think I've been there (and maybe sometimes
return to it.)

Anyways, I think /all/ bicycles are good, especially if
they're put to use. There are so many styles of bike,
as there are styles of riding. There's something for
everybody's purposes. And I think that's beautiful.

An ox injected with cheese (ox Kiev?) is a scary prospect.

Gotta have some "healthy" stuff along with it.
I kinda like beet tops. The cheese thing is tempting,
but sometimes we've gotta draw limits.

I wonder how one deals with ox leftovers?


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
  #39  
Old September 23rd 07, 08:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,193
Default Walmart bike good enough?

In article .com,
rdclark writes:
On Sep 17, 8:31 pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:

I figure the real benefits of expensive bikes
are ... they're pretty. And that's okay. It
can be nice to possess something of quality and
aesthetic beauty. If it inspires a rider to ride,
that's fine 'n dandy, just like sugar candy.


What's "expensive"?


More than you could ever dream of affording.

[snip]

Is $2000 expensive?


That's a good question. A lot of good bike can be
had for that price.

I thought it was at the time. I believed I was
indulging myself because I could afford to.

I don't think so now. There may be a point where more money doesn't
buy you anything of measurable worth, but $2000 isn't that point. I
believe that every dollar I spent on this bike is part of the palpable
experience of riding it every day.


I'm very fond of those rough-'n-ready, bulletproof, cheap-o
Sugino cranksets. And minimal Victor (VP) cage pedals.
And I've developed an appreciation for steel cranks, provided
they look sharp, and are not too beat-up.

The cheap-o frame I'm currently riding survived a head-on
collision. The orig fork didn't survive so well[*]; I
just swapped-in another one (+ the front wheel) from a
similar bike.

Given a budget, I could gleefully pimp-up a two-wheeled
whip like nobody's business. But I have no such budget.

Oh, well. I have what I have, and I'm happy & satisfied
with it. I hope other folx are satisfied with whatever
they've got.

To get to the point: "Expensive" is buying a bike for
an unused wall-hanger.

My new 1996 Trek 930SHX cost about $1500 Cdn IIRC.
It was a nice bike, and the most expensive one
I'd ever owned. I even put it to some extensive XC
MTB use. Then the world blew up in my face, and
I had to divest myself of many material posessions.

Then I ended up living in a rooming house.
I chummed-up with a fellow in the next-door rooming house;
he asked if there's anything he could help me out with.
I jokingly asked: "Do you have a spare bike?" And to my
amazement, he said: "Yes" and handed me the Sekine mixte
of which I am so maternal about, over the fence.

Man, it felt /so/ good to be on a bike again!

Getting to the point of acquiring that bike both cost
me dearly, and educated me greatly (that was back when
astrologically, Pluto was dragging Sagittarians down to
Hell.) I guess it's like an apprenticeship. My
nextdoorikah, Ewald's birthday is one day away from mine.

Heh.

That ol' Sekine is just cheap junk to most of the world,
despite it's lovely, raven-black paint and sculpted lugs.


cheers,
Tom
[*] I still have it. It looks like a giant extracted wisdom
tooth with long, twisted roots.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca





























 




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