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#1
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
I must get catalogs from Performance and Nashbar (same owner) twice a
week. Maybe it's the time of the season with it getting dark earlier, but I've noticed that there seem to be a hell of a lot of new bicycle lights coming on the market, especially new high-power LED lights that must be using the Cree LEDs and claim to be as bright as an HID, i.e. "http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=24466&subcategory_ID=4320". It's also amusing to see the move back to metal cases as the LEDs increase in power. Love those external heat sinks that they try to blend in as part of the industrial design on "http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23115&subcategory_ID=4320". Maybe they can do a heat pipe and use the waste heat for some sort of heating system for winter riding. Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. |
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#2
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their
bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. It's not a lack of competition that's keeping prices up; it's the relatively-small quantities being manufactured. No single manufacturer has captured a large-enough share of the market to bring down costs. Nobody's been willing to take the pluge (spending a whole lot of $$$) and really mass-produce a high quality lower-cost system. Not even Cat-Eye, which seems to not do well each time they come out with a higher-end system. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA "SMS" wrote in message ... I must get catalogs from Performance and Nashbar (same owner) twice a week. Maybe it's the time of the season with it getting dark earlier, but I've noticed that there seem to be a hell of a lot of new bicycle lights coming on the market, especially new high-power LED lights that must be using the Cree LEDs and claim to be as bright as an HID, i.e. "http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=24466&subcategory_ID=4320". It's also amusing to see the move back to metal cases as the LEDs increase in power. Love those external heat sinks that they try to blend in as part of the industrial design on "http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23115&subcategory_ID=4320". Maybe they can do a heat pipe and use the waste heat for some sort of heating system for winter riding. Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. |
#3
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
SMS wrote:
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. It's not a lack of competition that's keeping prices up; it's the relatively-small quantities being manufactured. No single manufacturer has captured a large-enough share of the market to bring down costs. Nobody's been willing to take the pluge (spending a whole lot of $$$) and really mass-produce a high quality lower-cost system. Not even Cat-Eye, which seems to not do well each time they come out with a higher-end system. I guess there's such a thing as too many players in the market. Meanwhile, some of the high end 3W Cree LED flashlights are brighter than the DiNotte lights, and combined with one of the many handlebar clamps available you can have a good front light for $60 or so, one that blows the low power CatEye lamps out of the water. Combine it with a Trek Disco Inferno or a CatEye LD1000 and you can have a very good system for under $100. I was very impressed with the beam of the Fenix L2DCE, which has sufficient peripheral illumination off to the side, in addition to the powerful spot beam. You don't get that with most of the low-power bicycle lights which often have a beam that is a compromise to focus the limited output directly in front of the bicycle. It seems that many of the bicycle lights are charging so much just because of the mount to the bicycle, there's nothing so special about the lights themselves. Maybe I'll restart the All Night Bicycle Rides I used to do for Western Wheelers. They were great fun, and I was surprised at the turnout. I expected three people and would often get thirty. It was as much a lighting system comparison as a ride! Thank g-d the Donut Wheel is still open 24 hours. ------------- Night riding is my favorite. On the road, hell of a lot less cars to deal with, and you get to play with lights, rear lights, reflective gear, gives cycling a whole different spin. People are afraid of the dark, because they don't have the right equipment, and they think they're going to get run over. I ride about 5000 miles a year in the dark, and 5000 in the day, and the number of close calls I've had with cars is 5 to 1 daytime vs nightime. If you have the courage to ride in the day, the night is a piece of cake. One exception is maybe Friday and Saturday nights, I still try to avoid those. But I avoid those driving too, a lot juiced up kooks you see during those nights. People throwing stuff at you and the like. I think the economies of scale argument on bicycle lights is bogus. Like the fenix flashlight, is better built, won't break, but yet costs 25% as much as bike light with the same LED, with some proprietary battery, that will break eventually. It's called a rip-off. Cateye's are still selling 1 watt Lux LED's that are 5 year old technology. They should be selling those for 20 bucks. I dropped one, and it broke, that's how cheap it was, that's when I said I'm not going to let them rip me off anymore. |
#4
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. It's not a lack of competition that's keeping prices up; it's the relatively-small quantities being manufactured. No single manufacturer has captured a large-enough share of the market to bring down costs. Nobody's been willing to take the pluge (spending a whole lot of $$$) and really mass-produce a high quality lower-cost system. Not even Cat-Eye, which seems to not do well each time they come out with a higher-end system. I guess there's such a thing as too many players in the market. Meanwhile, some of the high end 3W Cree LED flashlights are brighter than the DiNotte lights, and combined with one of the many handlebar clamps available you can have a good front light for $60 or so, one that blows the low power CatEye lamps out of the water. Combine it with a Trek Disco Inferno or a CatEye LD1000 and you can have a very good system for under $100. I was very impressed with the beam of the Fenix L2DCE, which has sufficient peripheral illumination off to the side, in addition to the powerful spot beam. You don't get that with most of the low-power bicycle lights which often have a beam that is a compromise to focus the limited output directly in front of the bicycle. It seems that many of the bicycle lights are charging so much just because of the mount to the bicycle, there's nothing so special about the lights themselves. Maybe I'll restart the All Night Bicycle Rides I used to do for Western Wheelers. They were great fun, and I was surprised at the turnout. I expected three people and would often get thirty. It was as much a lighting system comparison as a ride! Thank g-d the Donut Wheel is still open 24 hours. |
#5
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:01:56 -0700, SMS wrote:
I must get catalogs from Performance and Nashbar (same owner) twice a week. Maybe it's the time of the season with it getting dark earlier, but I've noticed that there seem to be a hell of a lot of new bicycle lights coming on the market, especially new high-power LED lights that must be using the Cree LEDs and claim to be as bright as an HID, i.e. "http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=24466&subcategory_ID=4320". It's also amusing to see the move back to metal cases as the LEDs increase in power. Love those external heat sinks that they try to blend in as part of the industrial design on "http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23115&subcategory_ID=4320". Maybe they can do a heat pipe and use the waste heat for some sort of heating system for winter riding. I retrofitted one of those LEDs to a cheap halogen system. I only used a small finned internal heatsink, and haven't had any problems. As for brightness, it's somewhere between a 5W and 10W halogen - certainly not competitive with HID. |
#6
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
In article ,
SMS wrote: Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. It's not a lack of competition that's keeping prices up; it's the relatively-small quantities being manufactured. No single manufacturer has captured a large-enough share of the market to bring down costs. Nobody's been willing to take the pluge (spending a whole lot of $$$) and really mass-produce a high quality lower-cost system. Not even Cat-Eye, which seems to not do well each time they come out with a higher-end system. I guess there's such a thing as too many players in the market. Not according to classical economics. Looked at the DVD player market? I was very impressed with the beam of the Fenix L2DCE, which has sufficient peripheral illumination off to the side, in addition to the powerful spot beam. You don't get that with most of the low-power bicycle lights which often have a beam that is a compromise to focus the limited output directly in front of the bicycle. Well, at least you're persistent in your apologism for the incompetent grasp of optics exhibited by most battery powered light makers. It seems that many of the bicycle lights are charging so much just because of the mount to the bicycle, there's nothing so special about the lights themselves. On this we agree. |
#7
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
Tim McNamara wrote:
In article , SMS wrote: Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this competition. It's not a lack of competition that's keeping prices up; it's the relatively-small quantities being manufactured. No single manufacturer has captured a large-enough share of the market to bring down costs. Nobody's been willing to take the pluge (spending a whole lot of $$$) and really mass-produce a high quality lower-cost system. Not even Cat-Eye, which seems to not do well each time they come out with a higher-end system. I guess there's such a thing as too many players in the market. Not according to classical economics. Looked at the DVD player market? I was very impressed with the beam of the Fenix L2DCE, which has sufficient peripheral illumination off to the side, in addition to the powerful spot beam. You don't get that with most of the low-power bicycle lights which often have a beam that is a compromise to focus the limited output directly in front of the bicycle. Well, at least you're persistent in your apologism for the incompetent grasp of optics exhibited by most battery powered light makers. It seems that many of the bicycle lights are charging so much just because of the mount to the bicycle, there's nothing so special about the lights themselves. On this we agree. Most of the dynamo headlights are very big compromises as well. However with the low power battery powered headlights they make the mistake of trying to project a beam that provides both peripheral and spot illumination, without sufficient power. You end up with the worst of both worlds. With most of the dynamo lights they're smart enough to give up on peripheral illumination and just do a spot beam. |
#8
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
"SMS" wrote in message
... Most of the dynamo headlights are very big compromises as well. However with the low power battery powered headlights they make the mistake of trying to project a beam that provides both peripheral and spot illumination, without sufficient power. You end up with the worst of both worlds. With most of the dynamo lights they're smart enough to give up on peripheral illumination and just do a spot beam. The beam pattern emitted by most of the non-bike-specific lamps - LEDs, MR11, MR16 is pretty much circular. Ie rotate the thing, and it makes no difference. Thing is, for road riding at least, there's very little of interest in the top 1/3 at least of the field of vision. In fact, most of the time there's nothing at all. So why waste light sending it out there? Decent beam focussing handles this, and it would help all lamps, not just dynamo ones. With that in mind, why do you persist in advocating solutions which have wasteful lenses? clive |
#9
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
Clive George wrote:
With that in mind, why do you persist in advocating solutions which have wasteful lenses? What you don't understand is that all that light is not "wasted." You're falling into the trap of misunderstanding of how lights work as both "seeing" and "being seen" devices, as well as ignoring the advantages of the symmetrical beam. You need to realize how important it is to have not only a spot beam, but the light up the periphery as well. Look at the Solidlights for example. Other than the 1103 model, they use two or three circular lenses which results in some overlap, but the resulting beam is still more symmetrical. Read the review at "http://www.blayleys.com/articles/lights/page4.htm" which states "The light is a symmetrical beam, rather than the focused beam of most of the lights designed for the Schmidt dynohub. But there is an advantage to this type of beam for PBP. One thing I have noticed recently is how well road signs reflect back. For PBP, this means the reflective arrows on route markings on signposts and in trees should be quite visible." It's great to see a device like the SolidLights 1203D on the market. Finally a company that "gets it" and produced a bright, safe, light for dynamo systems. Not cheap, but as Mike pointed out, with the relatively small quantities of each type of high-end light, the quantities aren't there to bring prices down. |
#10
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So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?
"SMS" wrote in message ... Clive George wrote: With that in mind, why do you persist in advocating solutions which have wasteful lenses? What you don't understand is that all that light is not "wasted." You're falling into the trap of misunderstanding of how lights work as both "seeing" and "being seen" devices, as well as ignoring the advantages of the symmetrical beam. You need to realize how important it is to have not only a spot beam, but the light up the periphery as well. How is lighting up the sky anything but wasting light? There's nothing there to reflect back, there's nothing there which needs to see you. FWIW my well-focussed B+M front lamp has no trouble with illuminating road signs and "the periphery" - the sides need rather less light than the main beam. clive |
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