A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » General
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 20th 07, 12:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Dorfus Dippintush
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 175
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

Clive George wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

With that in mind, why do you persist in advocating solutions which
have wasteful lenses?


What you don't understand is that all that light is not "wasted."
You're falling into the trap of misunderstanding of how lights work as
both "seeing" and "being seen" devices, as well as ignoring the
advantages of the symmetrical beam. You need to realize how important
it is to have not only a spot beam, but the light up the periphery as
well.


How is lighting up the sky anything but wasting light? There's nothing
there to reflect back, there's nothing there which needs to see you.

FWIW my well-focussed B+M front lamp has no trouble with illuminating
road signs and "the periphery" - the sides need rather less light than
the main beam.

clive



Obviously you don't ride off road where things exist "up in the sky".

Dorfus
Ads
  #12  
Old September 20th 07, 12:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

"Dorfus Dippintush" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

With that in mind, why do you persist in advocating solutions which
have wasteful lenses?

What you don't understand is that all that light is not "wasted." You're
falling into the trap of misunderstanding of how lights work as both
"seeing" and "being seen" devices, as well as ignoring the advantages of
the symmetrical beam. You need to realize how important it is to have
not only a spot beam, but the light up the periphery as well.


How is lighting up the sky anything but wasting light? There's nothing
there to reflect back, there's nothing there which needs to see you.

FWIW my well-focussed B+M front lamp has no trouble with illuminating
road signs and "the periphery" - the sides need rather less light than
the main beam.


Obviously you don't ride off road where things exist "up in the sky".


You'll have missed the bit when I said I was talking about on-road riding.
Take a look a couple of messages back in the thread - I was quite explicit
about it.

cheers,
clive

  #13  
Old September 20th 07, 01:27 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

Clive George wrote:

FWIW my well-focussed B+M front lamp has no trouble with illuminating
road signs and "the periphery" - the sides need rather less light than
the main beam.


If it's aimed high enough to illuminate the signs, then it's not
sufficiently illuminating the road. If it's aimed low enough to
illuminate the road sufficiently far ahead then it's not sufficiently
illuminating the signs. There's no free lunch here.
  #14  
Old September 20th 07, 01:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?


"SMS" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

FWIW my well-focussed B+M front lamp has no trouble with illuminating
road signs and "the periphery" - the sides need rather less light than
the main beam.


If it's aimed high enough to illuminate the signs, then it's not
sufficiently illuminating the road. If it's aimed low enough to illuminate
the road sufficiently far ahead then it's not sufficiently illuminating
the signs. There's no free lunch here.


You don't need much light to illuminate road signs. Well, not here anyway -
they're properly reflective.

clive


  #15  
Old September 20th 07, 02:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

In article ,
SMS wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
SMS wrote:

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Are there really that many people buying $200-400 lights for
their bicycles? I hope that this signals a trend to more night
riding, and hopefully the prices will fall with all this
competition.
It's not a lack of competition that's keeping prices up; it's the
relatively-small quantities being manufactured. No single
manufacturer has captured a large-enough share of the market to
bring down costs. Nobody's been willing to take the pluge
(spending a whole lot of $$$) and really mass-produce a high
quality lower-cost system. Not even Cat-Eye, which seems to not
do well each time they come out with a higher-end system.
I guess there's such a thing as too many players in the market.


Not according to classical economics. Looked at the DVD player
market?

I was very impressed with the beam of the Fenix L2DCE, which has
sufficient peripheral illumination off to the side, in addition to
the powerful spot beam. You don't get that with most of the
low-power bicycle lights which often have a beam that is a
compromise to focus the limited output directly in front of the
bicycle.


Well, at least you're persistent in your apologism for the
incompetent grasp of optics exhibited by most battery powered light
makers.

It seems that many of the bicycle lights are charging so much just
because of the mount to the bicycle, there's nothing so special
about the lights themselves.


On this we agree.


Most of the dynamo headlights are very big compromises as well.
However with the low power battery powered headlights they make the
mistake of trying to project a beam that provides both peripheral and
spot illumination, without sufficient power. You end up with the
worst of both worlds. With most of the dynamo lights they're smart
enough to give up on peripheral illumination and just do a spot beam.


Have you ever actually used a Lumotec headlight? There's a well defined
central area which is lensed in such a way that the top of the beam-
which illuminates the road farthest away- resulting in an evenly
illuminated patch of road. And there is adequate light to the sides to
see the edges of the road and a bit of the verge. Plenty of light in
the right places. I have had lots of people with 10W battery lights
following me because they can see better with my light than with theirs.
  #16  
Old September 20th 07, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

In article ,
Dorfus Dippintush wrote:

Clive George wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Clive George wrote:

With that in mind, why do you persist in advocating solutions
which have wasteful lenses?

What you don't understand is that all that light is not "wasted."
You're falling into the trap of misunderstanding of how lights
work as both "seeing" and "being seen" devices, as well as
ignoring the advantages of the symmetrical beam. You need to
realize how important it is to have not only a spot beam, but the
light up the periphery as well.


How is lighting up the sky anything but wasting light? There's
nothing there to reflect back, there's nothing there which needs to
see you.

FWIW my well-focussed B+M front lamp has no trouble with
illuminating road signs and "the periphery" - the sides need rather
less light than the main beam.


Obviously you don't ride off road where things exist "up in the sky".


We have all, I think, stipulated that generator lights don't work well
for off-road riding. The needs and conditions are much different than
with road riding.
  #17  
Old September 20th 07, 04:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

Tim McNamara wrote:

I have had lots of people with 10W battery lights
following me because they can see better with my light than with theirs.


Of course you have Frank. Are these the same people that spontaneously
stop you to compliment you on your lights?
  #18  
Old September 20th 07, 04:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,394
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Tim McNamara wrote:

I have had lots of people with 10W battery lights following me because
they can see better with my light than with theirs.


Of course you have Frank. Are these the same people that spontaneously
stop you to compliment you on your lights?


Can I be Frank too?

(must admit wife and I had a mutual "gosh, aren't our lights good" session
when we met each other coming home the other night. Both SON based 3W
halogen, one lumotech, one a plain old union lamp.)

clive

  #19  
Old September 20th 07, 05:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?

In article ,
SMS wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:

I have had lots of people with 10W battery lights following me
because they can see better with my light than with theirs.


Of course you have Frank. Are these the same people that
spontaneously stop you to compliment you on your lights?


Pay attention, Steven. I'm not Frank. A downside of being contentious
is losing track of to whom you are talking.

But on that topic, I have also gotten spontaneous compliments on my
lights from non-bicyclists several times- car drivers and pedestrians
commenting on how bright my lights are. And I have gotten many comments
from beginning randonneurs during the night portions of rides. On half
a dozen or so brevets I have had riders ask to follow me because my
lights worked so much better than their NightRiders and whatnot. I like
the company so it works out OK.
  #20  
Old September 20th 07, 05:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Drackman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 541
Default So many new lighting systems, who's buying them all?


"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
SMS wrote:


But on that topic, I have also gotten spontaneous compliments on my
lights from non-bicyclists several times- car drivers and pedestrians
commenting on how bright my lights are. And I have gotten many comments
from beginning randonneurs during the night portions of rides. On half
a dozen or so brevets I have had riders ask to follow me because my
lights worked so much better than their NightRiders and whatnot. I like
the company so it works out OK.


Sounds like a win for everyone!


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
By the year 2015, most of the world's wired communication systems will be replaced by wireless communication systems Admin Mountain Biking 3 May 19th 07 09:05 PM
CO2 Systems J Jones Techniques 24 March 17th 06 06:06 PM
MTB gear systems Robin Norton Mountain Biking 5 December 21st 04 10:25 PM
Suggestions on lighting systems David Johnston Techniques 16 July 28th 03 03:21 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.