Do you see a connection b/ the generation gap and bikes?

(Hey, this is getting political, but anyway the solution lies in
politics)

This is a statement I put in my webpage. I saw it all from the inside,
both in the presidential campaigns of 2000 and 2004, living close to
an older community, where the issues were Elian Gonzalez (remember
him?), Cuba and terrorism... And I argued with them, "Are you crazy?
We need other issues: Peace, Global Warming, BIKE FACILITIES, so the
younger generations can have a chance!" But the elderly, on cue from
the radio, which made up the issues, and influenced by some hotdogs,
voted for the "tough candidates." People as old as 90 plus! And when I
pressed them hard, they would often shrug their shoulders and reply,
"I'm gonna die tomorrow, so who cares!"

So, would a younger voter care about bicycling for peace and the
environment?

"I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to
die in." -George McGovern

A REVOLUTION FOR THE YOUNG?
Sorry, guys, but this revolution is for the young --or at least for
the young at heart-- who care about the future, and about a quality of
life surrounding their needs.

Regrettably, they are not being enticed into politics. Important
issues like TRAFFIC SAFETY and BIKE FACILITIES are kept out of the
political discourse. Simply, cunning politicians lure the elderly, who
are easily duped with the politics of fear. Remember the 2000
elections in Miami-Dade County. In other words: the Banana Republic
relies on the old and ignorant, while the Banana Revolution appeals to
the young and hopeful...

FACT: 80% of the young who don't vote do not live in democracy.


WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
(because the lion is hungry)
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

ComandanteBanana wrote:
(Hey, this is getting political, but anyway the solution lies in
politics)

But your posts are less and less relevant to the UK where we're quite
happy to get involved with pushing the case for cycling without you, so
I've trimmed uk.rec.cycling form the x-post list.

Lesson #1 for successful revolutions: don't **** off the people you want
to do the fighting.

Rhetorical question #1: ever noticed how heavy cross posting with less
than scrupulous attention paid to which groups are included ****es a lot
of folk off on Usenet?
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On May 23, 6:54 am, Peter Clinch wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
(Hey, this is getting political, but anyway the solution lies in
politics)

But your posts are less and less relevant to the UK where we're quite
happy to get involved with pushing the case for cycling without you, so
I've trimmed uk.rec.cycling form the x-post list.

Lesson #1 for successful revolutions: don't **** off the people you want
to do the fighting.

Well, first you have to start by telling me that you want to do the
fighting, then I stop the posting. But when you listen to the radio,
you hear the same lies at least 100 times.

By the way, did I ever say George Orwell was my inspiration? The
little animals launch the revolution, but never trust the pigs. So
they are organized around a political platform instead. Something
like...

COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

Forget about Marx, Lenin, Che or Mao. The next Revolution will be led
by the sardines with no complicated theories and without any need for
big fishes who betray the revolution.


"If there was hope, it must lie in the SARDINES, because only there,
in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five per cent of the
population... could the force to destroy the SHARK ever be
generated. ...the SARDINES, if only they could somehow become
conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They
needed only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off
flies. If they chose they could blow the SHARK to pieces tomorrow
morning." -George Orwell, "1984"

Well, it's not literally what Orwell said (put the words PROLES and
PARTY in it), but you get the point: THE SARDINES SURE CAN CHALLENGE
THE SHARK!

"The hope lies in the proles," he said in the same book.

ComandanteBanana wrote:

But your posts are less and less relevant to the UK where we're quite
happy to get involved with pushing the case for cycling without you, so
I've trimmed uk.rec.cycling form the x-post list.

Lesson #1 for successful revolutions: don't **** off the people you want
to do the fighting.

Well, first you have to start by telling me that you want to do the
fighting, then I stop the posting.

Okay, re-read what I said: "where we're quite happy to get involved with
pushing the case for cycling without you", so now I've told you (twice
in fact) so it's time for your half of the bargain.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On May 23, 9:55*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
But your posts are less and less relevant to the UK where we're quite
happy to get involved with pushing the case for cycling without you, so
I've trimmed uk.rec.cycling form the x-post list.

Lesson #1 for successful revolutions: don't **** off the people you want
to do the fighting.

Well, first you have to start by telling me that you want to do the
fighting, then I stop the posting.

Okay, re-read what I said: "where we're quite happy to get involved with
pushing the case for cycling without you", so now I've told you (twice
in fact) so it's time for your half of the bargain.

I guess then I would to take my revolution to Haiti or Zimbabwe, where
everything is possible. I think the First World is too fat for it.

Anyway, this is the question I'd put to they young Haitian and
Zimbabweans...

Originally Posted by gcottay
"Uh, what particular voting question do you have in mind?"

My point is that if I were to put biking among the presidential
issues, the younger voters would go for it, while the older ones would
be indifferent to it, and since they represent the overwhelming
majority...

I saw a movie (whose name I regrettably forgot) in which, depending
how you phrase a poll, it's the answer you get.

So if I were to ask,

"Would you like to give priority to bikes on the right lane of
multiple-lane roads, and limit vehicle speed to 20MPH?"

Then you emphasize the fun and sexy factor in bicycling, not the
environmental ones, I bet it would be a big "YES" among young
voters.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution starts when you ride a bike. You think of it as a
kinder, gentler vehicle that will help keep Peace as well as save the
Environment, and make you Sexy."

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

ComandanteBanana wrote:
On May 23, 9:55 am, Peter Clinch wrote:

Okay, re-read what I said: "where we're quite happy to get involved with
pushing the case for cycling without you", so now I've told you (twice
in fact) so it's time for your half of the bargain.

I guess then I would to take my revolution to Haiti or Zimbabwe, where
everything is possible. I think the First World is too fat for it.

Well, off you go then.

But before you go (either anyway, or just into my killfile), you may
wish to consider that your modus operandi of being much better at
telling than listening has actively /alienated/ someone who has been a
frequent correspondent with various organisations and politicians
regarding cycle safety, who has been interviewed on live radio
concerning cycle safety, has been invited to peer review an article on
cycling safety for a transport safety journal, who is a qualified cycle
trainer, who leads local cycle rides for the UK's biggest cyclists'
organisation and who has served on work place committees to improve
cycle facilities.

So if you've managed to **** off someone with that list of pro-cycling
brownie points by failing to recognise that folk in the UK have an
entirely different political system which renders a lot of what you say
irrelevant, how do you think you're doing with anyone else on urc?

Anyway, this is the question I'd put to they young Haitian and
Zimbabweans...

snip
Again, showing yourself to be amazingly out of touch with anyone beyond
your own back yard. Do you really think they don't have more important
things to worry about than how sexy bikes are?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On May 23, 10:54*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
On May 23, 9:55 am, Peter Clinch wrote:
Okay, re-read what I said: "where we're quite happy to get involved with
pushing the case for cycling without you", so now I've told you (twice
in fact) so it's time for your half of the bargain.

I guess then I would to take my revolution to Haiti or Zimbabwe, where
everything is possible. I think the First World is too fat for it.

Well, off you go then.

But before you go (either anyway, or just into my killfile), you may
wish to consider that your modus operandi of being much better at
telling than listening has actively /alienated/ someone who has been a
frequent correspondent with various organisations and politicians
regarding cycle safety, who has been interviewed on live radio
concerning cycle safety, has been invited to peer review an article on
cycling safety for a transport safety journal, who is a qualified cycle
trainer, who leads local cycle rides for the UK's biggest cyclists'
organisation and who has served on work place committees to improve
cycle facilities.

So if you've managed to **** off someone with that list of pro-cycling
brownie points by failing to recognise that folk in the UK have an
entirely different political system which renders a lot of what you say
irrelevant, how do you think you're doing with anyone else on urc?

Well, we promise to accomplish in one year what you could accomplish
in fifty, so our jobs are complementary.

But the UK also swims in the sea of globalization, and not as a
sardine...


Anyway, this is the question I'd put to they young Haitian and
Zimbabweans...

snip
Again, showing yourself to be amazingly out of touch with anyone beyond
your own back yard. *Do you really think they don't have more important
things to worry about than how sexy bikes are?

Well, in the Third World they have one priority: SURVIVAL. Basic food
and basic transportation, ie the bike. Their elites, though, carefully
groomed by the First World, drive SUVs...

So we can emphasize there that they won't have to work as hard as in
the First World, or that THE BICYCLE IS THE VEHICLE OF FREEDOM.

Let me recycle this post (one last time)...

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
"An easy call on the OP and his "Banana Revolution" fantasy and
imbecilic generalizing/stereotyping."

The Banana Revolution has to do with the survival of the small fish
(read bikes) in a sea of globalization. And the old people are used by
the sharks to vote for their Darwinistic agenda, get it?

Well I'm glad somebody else besides me noticed the connection between
bananas and revolution...


Bananas and the Revolution
Peter Schata
There is a long political history behind bananas becoming the fifth
most important food commodity in the world. They were one of the first
products where no expense was spared to create world markets for this
unmistakeable fruit, turning whole countries over to banana
production, with stooge dictators controlled by the USA, in what aptly
became known as 'the banana republics'. Half a century after the big
Hollywood-style banana campaigns, the banana reflects ever more
clearly a world economic system concerned only with the kind of
'growth' that means control of the markets and massive profits. What
happens to the environment or to the people, who produce and consume
the fruit of such intentions, appears to be irrelevant.

In our democracies there is little self-determination, and we only
need to look at poverty and unemployment in Europe as well, to raise
doubts as to what is meant by 'free trade'. Such distortions of
language that hoodwink millions of people into accepting their lot,
need to be challenged and overturned. New language means new ideas,
new concepts. This is the revolution. We are this revolution!

Such a revolution is especially important if we are to find ways to
shift from the current forms of egocentric globalisation to a global
society that recognises the actual interrelatedness of all human
beings as well as our interconnectedness with the planet that supports
us.

From a global perspective the best numbers I can come up with are a
good twenty years old:
400,000,000 automobiles (roughly half in the USofA)
1,200,000,000 bicycles

Even if you incorrectly assume that all the motoring people have not
also a bike (which seems very unlikely to someone that owns several of
both) There is still about 3.5.billion people that ain't got no wheels
what so ever. No wonder peoples are starving, they ain't got no means
with which to haul their ass to the office at all. Well I guess they
ain't got to office to which to have their ass hauled to anyway - but
there is still significant hauling that could be accomplished by a
bloke with a bike that isn't happening due to lack of wheels.

IF they had bikes in E.Africa they wouldn't be 'walking to Johhny' and
dieing on the way, they'd be pedaling there and some of 'em might
actually make there - So I guess the inhabitants of Johannesburg may
have a vested interest in keeping bikes out of those impoverished
places to their north. I can't really see the motivation for the rest
of the world. It seems the best interest of the global economy is
served by building more bikes and fewer cars - just the opposite of
the trend in China... We must nuke China for the good of the planet
and the planet's inhabitants.

Or maybe we could just mail our old Huffys and what not to Haiti and
Zimbabwe, uh would you settle for JAMAICA and MOLDOVA instead?
This outfit: Pedals for Progress: http://www.p4p.org/index.html ,
might be just the ticket for ya.
They're not the only game in town, well I guess it matters what town
you're in. From the city with broad shoulders: http://workingbikes.org.
Hey you can google fer yourself can't you?

Just be careful that your old cycle doesn't end up in Latin America
where in might become a mechanism to promote illegal emigration,
dang... I sound like them fat cats in Johannesburg don't I?

On May 23, 1:43*pm, DennisTheBald wrote:
From a global perspective the best numbers I can come up with are a
good twenty years old:
* *400,000,000 automobiles (roughly half in the USofA)
1,200,000,000 bicycles

Even if you incorrectly assume that all the motoring people have not
also a bike (which seems very unlikely to someone that owns several of
both) There is still about 3.5.billion people that ain't got no wheels
what so ever. *No wonder peoples are starving, they ain't got no means
with which to haul their ass to the office at all. *Well I guess they
ain't got to office to which to have their ass hauled to anyway - but
there is still significant hauling that could be accomplished by a
bloke with a bike that isn't happening due to lack of wheels.

All of this makes so much sense. But I guess the Harvard and Oxford
educated Third World leaders don't know about it. Somehow they think
SUVs helps more globalization than biking. Afterall, like you
correctly say, China is moving away from bikes and getting into the
SUV fever...


IF they had bikes in E.Africa they wouldn't be 'walking to Johhny' and
dieing on the way, they'd be pedaling there and some of 'em might
actually make there - So I guess the inhabitants of Johannesburg may
have a vested interest in keeping bikes out of those impoverished
places to their north. *I can't really see the motivation for the rest
of the world. *It seems the best interest of the global economy is
served by building more bikes and fewer cars - just the opposite of
the trend in China... We must nuke China for the good of the planet
and the planet's inhabitants.

China is a big player in the game, though not necessarily bad... See,
they just follow America, and their hunger for oil is driving prices
up, and making bikes more desirable in the West. And, when things get
real bad with oil, they may become America's enemy in WWIII, and then
the two models that promote the Law of the Jungle will annihalate each
other. Of course, there's going to be a nuclear fallout all over the
world, but nothing's perfect.


Or maybe we could just mail our old Huffys and what not to Haiti and
Zimbabwe, uh would you settle for JAMAICA and MOLDOVA instead?
This outfit: Pedals for Progress:http://www.p4p.org/index.html,
might be just the ticket for ya.
They're not the only game in town, well I guess it matters what town
you're in. *From the city with broad shoulders:http://workingbikes.org.
Hey you can google fer yourself can't you?

Just be careful that your old cycle doesn't end up in Latin America
where in might become a mechanism to promote illegal emigration,
dang... I sound like them fat cats in Johannesburg don't I?

It sounds funny, but the dilemma is BIKES OR WWIII!

But I'm optimistic today... I just went for a ride on my bike along
the beach, and everything beautiful out there. Life's a beach!

Originally Posted by wahoonc
"Actually in some ways what he is posting makes some sense...When Cuba
was hit with the loss of oil when the Soviet Union collapsed, they
imported a large number of bicycles from China to keep people moving,
they became healthier due to increased exercise and still had a form
of transport, they WERE headed down the same road as many other
countries with the automobile. In Vietnam the US was constantly having
problems stopping the supply line from the north, millions of pounds
of amunition and supplies was being hauled down the Ho Chi Minh
trail...by bicycle! And the US with all of it sophisticated equipment
and weaponry was almost powerless to stop it."

Aaron

I was watching a fictional documentary about the day oil runs out.
Well, America doesn't have an oil policy! Zero, zilch, nada...

America would have to invade Venezuela, making China do some move in
the Middle East, so they can keep going in their voracious journey
toward destruction.

It would be so easy to practice some prevention, starting with the
magic word: save! Our president has to tell Americans to save gas,
electricity, bottles, etc.

But the way we work reminds me of these words written 100 years ago...

"In a society dominated by the fact of commercial competition, money
is necessarily the test of prowess, and wastefulness the sole
criterion of power." -Upton Sinclair, book 'The Jungle'